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Unread 19-03-2008, 01:37
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Nawaid Ladak Nawaid Ladak is offline
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Re: Are the mandatory bumpers helping or hurting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sumadin View Post
Most posts here show an great combination of GP and expressing a reasonable opinion. It is my opinion that this post shows neither.

You can still play defense. Even with bumpers. The difference is that now, instead of the defense being "look at us, we have experience, we can design a strong drive train and ram people", the defense takes the form of "we found a defensive strategy to counter an offensive strategy."

I also disagree that this makes robots look uniform. With coloring, and the fact you can use however much bumpers you desire (66% - 100% of the frame) and whichever shape you desire *cough*148*cough*, means that as with most years, robots look anything but uniform. Also, bumpers give rookie and young teams opportunities to add color onto their robot, without painting something that is likely to be broken or be worked on.

With your high speed hits thing, what a great way to be as anti-rookie as possible. Unfortunately, not all rookies get experienced FIRST teams to mentor them. Without any knowledge that some teams will be out there just to hit people as hard as they can, I am sure that many rookie teams would find it hard to do FIRST. You spend six weeks on building a robot, come to a competition all excited, until someone who has done this a few more times than you drives all the way across the field to hit you, to separate the "contenders" from the "pretenders"? I'm all for defense, if it's played intelligently and doesn't rely on brute force. However, if you design a game that can end up as a drive-train war, how do you encourage creativity? You're talking about all robots looking the same? If games end up as pushing and hitting competitions, all robots will look the same. And that will be a sad, sad day for FIRST.

This is why I like Overdrive. Even though penalties play a huge, excessive role, and some things leave to be desired, I still think that in many ways, it's a step in the right direction. Especially during eliminations, this is one of the more exciting and crowd friendly games I can recall. It also allows for a myriad of offensive and defensive strategies, with few of them relying on brute force and many on intelligent design, creativity, and strategy.

As for wedges. If you read the rest of my post (and I'm not blaming you if not ), I am not for wedges. They're another rookie trap, something veteran teams would know how to handle much better than rookies. They also lead to boring play (have you ever watched two battle bots wedges compete?), and to tipped robots. In my opinion, if FIRST is to encourage creativity, intelligent engineering, and hard work, then wedges should remain illegal.
i like overdrive too, but only in the eliminations, im not sure about crowd pleasing on thursday, friday or saturday morning though, i had a break on friday and i talked to my old mentor and he absolutely HATED this game, as i've heard from quite a few other people. I really don't like this game either, "defense is not knocking a trackball down from the overpass with 5 seconds left. its stopping a team from placing a trackball in the first place with 5 seconds left." defense is not keeping the trackball away from the opposing bots by rolling it away from them, but more along the lines of pushing that opposing robot away from the trackball. this creates a "king of the hill" setting. played in 2004, 2006, and considerably less in 2007. (2004 from the bar, 2006 from the prime shooting possessions right in front of the center goal, and in 2007, on the rack). FIRST doesn't let you pull that off anymore...

your point about me being anti-rookie is incorrect, i EXPECT rookies to be wise enough to know what they are getting into. there are rookies that know how to win, even without veteran mentors, they should have seen a couple of matches from the previous years to see what base designs have worked, seince those DESIGNS have been uniform because of these BUMPERS.

I would enjoy it if FIRST brought back the 2006 rules minus the <R43>(i think that was the wedge rule).
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Nawaid Ladak
2003-2006 FRC # 1402: Freedom Force. Scouting
2007 FRC # 1694: RoboWarriors. Mentor
2008-Present FRC # 945: Team Banana. Mentor

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