Quote:
Originally Posted by markulrich
As a team that hasn't developed a very strong programming base yet, we are considering switching from C/MPLAB to LabVIEW next year. I think that it would be much easier for inexperienced students.
1) What is your team planning to use?
2) What do you think will become the new standard?
3) What will most rookie teams pick next year?
4) Do you think FIRST will give us the standard LabVIEW, or will we have a customized interface for the CompactRIO?
5) We have some NXTs. Would programming them using LabVIEW be a good way to get some experience before next year's kickoff?
6) Will there be any limitations to using LabVIEW? Will there be any features that are easily accessibly throught LabVIEW but require complex C? What are the main advantages/disadvantages?
Thanks so much, any advice is greatly appreciated.
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1) we will most likely (about 95-99% sure) be useing c/C++ considering that the students already know the lanuage from previous years, and the newer students have been shown to learn from them rather well (by osmosis
). As well, c/c++ gives the programmer a finer amount of control over their control system, and also provides a HUGE library of code that has already been developed (just think of all the c++ libraries in existance. Although many wont be applicable (like, say, the directX library), others could be very useful, such as a sockets library for sending datagram packets across the wifi connection to the oi to display sensor info, etc). Also, it is one of the primary languages used by the mentors for their robots.
2)Personally, although i see labview doing very well among younger or rookie teams, I thinks that c/c++ will the language of choice for the older (>2 years) teams simply on the basis that c/c++ can carry over to much more in the programming world (try programming a windows app in labview). I guess you could look at the c/c++ vs labview in the same way $@#$@#$@# the current c vs easyC decision many teams have. easyC is good for a starting team without a knowledgable programming mentor who needs to get through a season, but for total control over a program, c/c++ is preferred.
3)As I explained above, i think labview will be the choice of most rookie teams. LAbview will enable teams to get off the ground quickly, and they can switch to c/c+ when they feel that they need greater control over their control system.
4)Im really not sure on this one. I think that FIRST will likely provide a standard labview, but with first elements, like the WPI lib, installed with it. Basically, i think it will be a standard version for all intents and purposes, but optomized for first. Then again, im not really sure here, so quoting me would probably be a bad idea.
5)I think that doing so would be a great way to try out the labview side of things before getting the full system. People learn by actually coding (well, dragging in this case), not just by reading or watching a tutorial. The more hands on experience you can get, the more prepared you will be for next season. However, be cautious about what may change between the NXT and cRio. The addition of the OI will change several things, so be prepared for things to not be the exact same as they were with the NXT as they are with the Rio.
6)I dont think that the limitations on labview will be that great. That being said, C/c++'s vast number of already written libraries can give it an advantage (if they are applicable). Think about having an single board computer (like a via motherboard with a small hdd and like 128 mb of ram) running windows xp sitting on your robot which the cRio talks to using its ethernet port. The cRio would communicate all of its sensor data, which the computer would process and return all of the motor/relay commands. THis would give the advantage of allowing more complex calculations, as well as the ability to program in the language of almost anyones choice, as all the cRio would have to do would be to read sensors, send them out in a TCP or UDP packet, and then receive a TCP or UDP packet and assign motor commands. The computer would be doing all of the processing of the actual values, which could be done in c#, java, or vb.net (any language that supports sockets). While i dont know if labview can do this, I think that it would be much more difficult than in c++. One thing labview has going for it that I personally liked was its data filters. Many sensors we have tried in the past have been very noisy, and labview has its own filters incorporated with it that actually make the data readable.
pros/cons:
c++:
pro-lots of flexibility. already developed libraries. known from previous years.
Object orientation (YAY!
)
cons- difficult to pick up for a first timer, requires more knowledge of coding and algorithm development
labview:
pros- visual coding allows quick pickup by less experienced students. Allows for more complex control systems by younger teams
cons-less flexible, less applicable in larger context of programming
Hope this helps!