[EricH]

The more I think about the "no mentors in the pits", the more I don't really like it.

Let me explain: There are competitions out there without mentors. I name no names. There is a FIRST competition where the students are supposed to do most/all of the work. That is FLL. The mentor involvement is what sets FRC apart.

Take the mentor involvement out of the pits for a moment. They're at your facility, ready to answer questions, help you, hold a part. Now, you get to the event and they can't enter the pit. You suddenly have something go wrong that you don't know how to fix. You have to tell the mentor who is in the stands or at work what the issue is, with no way to send pictures (the engineer's language) and only your words. The fix might not work, or might not even be possible. And, according to Murphy, something WILL go wrong, and most likely the precise event that would cause this situation.

It's like pulling a cane out from under a guy who only needs it occasionally. You pull it when he doesn't need it, and when he does need it, he goes down hard.

If you want pure student-built, limited mentor, go with FTC or a different competition. Or set your own rules about how many mentors may be in the pit. FIRST is about changing the culture, not conforming to it. But each team is free to choose how they do so. If a team wants to go more student-led, then great. If they want to go more mentor-led, great.

Also, the student/mentor coaching was brought up in another thread. I would suggest reading that. And, over-involved mentors has been brought up before (see thread "When do mentors go too far?" from some time ago).

I understand the sponsor's questioning, but I also have to ask: Is he seeing the goal of FIRST correctly? Are we all seeing that goal correctly? If he sees it as a "student-run robotics competition", then I think he sees incorrectly. Dave Lavery said something during Kickoff about teams without mentors missing out. (I don't remember exactly, but it's been posted on CD. I'm just too lazy to search right now.)