[Billfred]

Foreword: I've posted in a similar style to this post times before; there are very legitimate questions Burt asked in this one. This one is similar to some of the other discussions in construction only.

Originally Posted by BurtGummer

Well, being a rookie team, it was our first year in Atlanta.

But once again I will bring up the topic of a rookie team. From this weekend, I see FIRST defining a rookie team as a team with a number from 2700ish to 3100ish. AKA a number chosen this year. So I have a question. Is team 2753 a rookie team who has never participated in FIRST? What about 3091? 2753 was almost exactly the same as 399, and 3091 sounds like several teams just recombined into one, making them a rookie team. Can anyone clarify this for me? If they are in fact rookies, who have never done FIRST before, then who built the robot? I can guarantee it wasn't the students. I am not saying that we should of won by an means......I would have been happy if any real rookie team won.

FIRST has a definition of what makes for a rookie team. Some rookies are always going to have better resources--2753 had a dominant run in FTC, 2815 has such mentor help that five years' experience still makes you a youngin'. I can't speak for anyone else, but 2815 remained a "real" rookie team through the conclusion of the Championship. Mentors drove our design this year, which I have absolutely no problem with--they had the experience. With time, I expect our kids to step up and work with the mentors to pick up some of the techniques and wisdom we've amassed.

Second.....rules. First off, regionals need more control. We fit easily into the measuring box at the LA Regional, but somehow our robot grew 3/8 of an inch between then and Atlanta, and the frame was not bent. In fact, I cut off a piece that was a little too high on Thursday morning just because I didn't like it sticking up. It fit that way into the measuring box at the LA Regional, but after cutting it off, it didn't fit in the boxes at Atlanta. If you are going to be so specific about something, the equipment measuring it needs to be precise as well.

If you think the measuring box is off, ask the inspectors (politely) to measure the dimensions. The sizing boxes are shipped with the fields, so damage isn't impossible, but you're really best off breaking out the tape measure on this one.

Wiring colors? I'll be honest, I had no idea because I didn't have the time to sit down and read a rule book...

And there's your first mistake. Just like the trailer hitch rules, or the team number sizes, or the display of schools and sponsors, it's a specification handed down by FIRST. You have to read the manual to be sure you find them all.

...and other students assigned the task did not complete it. But with that aside, why does it matter what color a wire is? Gauge is of course understandable, but the color? I've been working with electrical 'stuff's for years. IMO, it's a rule that is not necessary. Rules are normally for controlling the robot entries from having extra advantages (Size, Weight). But wire color? Come on. Don't pull the safety card on this either. Knowing a wire is ground or hot shouldn't decide how you work with it. You treat every wire like it's hot, just like you always treat a gun like it's loaded.

You might be fine, but other teams aren't so lucky. I've seen some genuine rat's nests over the years--with no wire color rules, I'd have no chance of figuring out the issue. I imagine Al Skierkiewicz or another one of the electrical know-it-alls can expand on FIRST's logic here.

On top of that, our wire coding was not correct at the LA Regional either, but none of the inspectors noticed. It would definitely help if we knew about it then, rather than at the Championships.

That the LA inspectors missed it is unfortunate, but it's not a free pass down the road. Your team is ultimately responsible for ensuring compliance with all the rules.

Third. Mentor involvement. Some of the teams I see have robots that you just KNOW that high school students didn't build, because when you go to the pits, you see a mentor fixing it, not a student.

There's no rule prohibiting this, and several awards celebrate partnerships between students and mentors. Partnership would imply that both groups are putting in their fair share of the work, not sitting quietly on the side and making sure the other group doesn't kill themselves.

If your students are not capable of building a high caliber robot, then don't. Build a kitbot. They'll get more experience out of building that than some other complex robot.

...or they could be working alongside mentors, learning the process that goes into producing an effective machine. I've been on both sides of the high-caliber coin; the kids seem much more inspired by the latter. If you've got a mentor that can show the students what you can do with a certain construction technique, why not let the kids discover what it takes to do it?

When awards were given out at the individual divisions, I saw several teams with parents/mentors getting handed the awards, with the students following behind them.

Many times, judges will give one award to a mentor and one to a student. I know this was the case when we received our Rookie All-Star award at Palmetto.

Match scheduling. If you want people to 'watch the monitors' make them visible! Being next to FTC, the only thing we saw was FTC. Being 8 minutes ahead of schedule, in my opinion, is unacceptable. If times are given out to the minute, then that schedule should be stuck to. Sure, fall behind, but getting ahead? We had to fix a bent frame from a match right before, which took A LOT of work, and then we show up at the field 8 minutes early and the match had already started.

I agree that matches running early can be perilous, but shifting deadlines are a part of life. I'd suggest sending a person next time to keep watch on the schedule screen and give you proper warnings to give you time to get to the field. We had a scare at Bayou with the match schedule--we didn't see that we had the second match back from lunch, resulting in our drive team having a quarter-mile sprint back to the arena. One of our partners wasn't as lucky, and no-showed the match. You live, you learn.