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Unread 09-01-2010, 22:23
Creator Mat Creator Mat is offline
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FRC #2338 (Gear it Forward)
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Join Date: Jan 2009
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Location: Aurora Illinois
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Re: Breakaway Discussion

OK i have a lot of long points to make about the game so this post will be kinda long

1. the 0 point losing team loophole of rules 9.3.4 & 9.3.5

I think this is a easily a fixable situation by teams trying to play the game the right way. For example say you got the allstars vs. the brokebots and the allstars have scored 20 points with 30 secs left with and the brokebots have scored 0 points. For the allstars to boost their seeding they need to score for the brokebots. All points scored this way are worth 2 points (basicly an endgame). However some are saying like in these posts http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...threadid=79736 http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...threadid=79708 that if you don't score and prevent your opponents from scoring for you this could be a favorable exploitation. But beyond just being against the spirit of gracious professionalism and the spirit of the game, it will hurt you more because if you follow this train of thought you give up on the chance to win which can net you more points (don't go to the all stars team scored 12 with 5 penalties and broke bots team scored 2 argument they can be nullified with what i said before or later in this post). Also when it comes time to choose alliances no one will want choose you if you went this route and if you did get in the top eight you will be considered the "carried" team and no one will like you. Plus if to many teams to this in the early regionals, continuity of the game be d****d, i will guarantee you FIRST will change the the rules to stop this type of action. So save the excitement of the game, the spirit of the game, and the spirit of gracious professionalism.

2. Quick change bumpers will be very important due to rule R12
This is something i was surprised no one has mentioned it. In the past i have heard teams (even veteran teams) complain how it takes FOREVER to take of their bumpers. With the requirement of having red and blue bumpers for your robot and the quick match turn around teams experience at regionals, teams could find themselves taking to long to change a bumper and cant compete. Yes teams do have the option to make the covering thing but i find that a bad idea if you have the resources to make a bumper. I think that type of system could be hard to make work because of how easily it could slip off. One hit or snag by another robot and your team could suddenly face a penalty (maybe i don't know if this breaks G30). But even if it doesn't break a rule why risk it?. my team uses a easy to create a quick disconnect system using c channel and some pins. If you have any questions about this just PM me and ill give you some more info on it.

3. defense is bad in the qualifications but great in the elimination
This pretty much goes back to my first point but defense sucks in the qualifications because more points your opponent scores the better win or lose (rules 9.3.4 & 9.3.5.) So shut outs are something people want to avoid so overall they get more seeding points. However the defensive bots (the good ones, not the box on wheels) and defensive strategys will become kings because they can help prevent the come back

4. the game will be played with one bot from each alliance in all three sections
This one might be a more individual results may vary type situation with exceptions to the rules appearing all the time. But on average i think putting 2 bots in one section (while forsaking another section of the field completely. not traveling back and forth) gives to many advantages to the opponent or would create an cluster like in lunacy with nothing happening. i will explore the three ways you can effectively do this
  • take some one out of your opponents alliance zone
  • take some one out of the middle
  • take someone out of your alliance zone
the first choice of taking someone out of your opponents alliance zone may be the best choice if you where to do this but is still bad. Even tho i have just said defense is bad, defensive hindrance and giving balls to your team to score with are good. Every one wants to win (i hope) and the best way to win in this is to score points faster than out opponent while still allowing them to score points. Plus having someone to "return" balls back to the middle or even you own alliances side is also a plus.
The second choice of taking some one out of the middle is complete suicide. That is where the balls are enough said. If your alliance chooses to do this they are probably playing by the strategy i discussed in my first point. Then you are just hurting yourself.
Then the third choice is most likely a gray area. Maybe some teams can score from mid field but it would probably be the same as taking someone out of your opponents zone but in reverse. Now your opponent has a easier time hindering the scoring of your alliance, which is bad.
All this would result in your alliance trying to gain increased control over a section (but not complete thanks to rule G39) while giving your opponent complete control over a section of which i have described the results (hopefully accurately) above
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Last edited by Creator Mat : 09-01-2010 at 23:25.
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