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Unread 08-03-2010, 09:54
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Ken Streeter Ken Streeter is offline
Let the MAYHEM begin!
FRC #1519 (Mechanical Mayhem)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Team: Milford, NH; Me: Bedford, NH
Posts: 470
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Re: Variation of the Prisoner's Dilemma

Quote:
Originally Posted by JewishDan18 View Post
6v0 matches split the points evenly, but the total number of points given remains constant (assuming no defense). I remember 1519 came to 20's pits, asking that we don't play defense. I agreed with them, since that is (imo) the best way to maximize points while seeing how well the robots perform.
From our perspective, not playing defense during the qualification rounds was a very evident conclusion; nearly everybody within 1519 was agreed on this point, and we believed that we could convince other teams (both alliance members and our alliance opponents) that the "no defense in qualification matches" approach was a better strategy than playing defense. Attached is a "No Defense Briefing Sheet" that we wrote and distributed well in advance of each qualification match in which we participated -- first to our alliance members to get their buy-in, and then to our alliance opponents. At least half of the alliance opponents we talked to about this thought we were trying to "pull a fast one" with them on this matter.

In all honesty, I was amazed at how few teams had seriously pondered the ranking strategies before the tournament and didn't realize that win/loss was no longer used for determining seeding rankings (even low-numbered veterans; team 20 was one of the rare exceptions that had clearly thought the matter through beforehand). At least half of the drive teams we spoke with had no knowledge of the new seeding approach and were hearing it from us for the first time, even into Saturday morning.

Internally, our team is split on whether the collective best strategy for qualification matches is to play a "3v3" match with no team playing defense, or to have all 6 teams collude to play a "6v0" match. Personally, I believe that the "6v0" match will likely be better for all teams, given two significant assumptions: (1) that in a "no defense" 3v3 match, average qualification round scores would be around 6-5, and (2) that in a "collusion" 6v0 match, the total number of goals scored would increase by about 30-50% over a "no defense" 3v3 match, since all balls are always going in the same direction, and specific roles can be assigned to all 6 teams to work together, to play to the strengths of each of the 6 robots.

Given the above assumptions, in a 3v3 match resulting in a 6-5 score, the winners would receive a total of 16 points for ranking, and the losers would receive 6 points. However, if the same teams played 6v0, I think they would score approximately 40% extra goals, resulting in a total of around 15-0, giving 15 points to all 6 teams. In such a scenario, I personally would advocate the 6 teams work together to get that 15-0 match.

We had wanted to be in a 6v0 match at the Granite State Regional. However, we encountered enough trouble trying to convince 5 other teams to not play defense that getting all teams in a match to collude on a single coopertition strategy was right out of the question.

I'm hoping that by the time we get to the North Carolina Regional (week 5), we'll be able to participate in a few 6v0 matches!

PS: Oh, and by the way, as was clearly evidenced in the GSR finals, we don't suggest a "no defense" approach in the elimination rounds...
Attached Files
File Type: pdf FRC-1519-No-Defense-Briefing.pdf (138.3 KB, 36 views)
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Ken Streeter - Team 1519 - Mechanical Mayhem (Milford Area Youth Homeschoolers Enriching Minds)
2015 NE District Winners with 195 & 2067, 125 & 1786, 230 & 4908, and 95 & 1307
2013 World Finalists & Archimedes Division Winners with 33 & 469
2013 & 2012 North Carolina Regional Winners with teams 435 & 4828 and 1311 & 2642
2011, 2010, 2006 Granite State Regional Winners with teams 175 & 176, 1073 & 1058, and 1276 & 133
Team 1519 Video Gallery - including Chairman's Video, and the infamous "Speed Racer!"