[WJF2011]

Bjc I agree with what you're saying, almost everyone is either winch, cam, or pneumatically kicking and almost every successful team uses a pincher or roller. Most teams are switching to the grab and turn upward bar due to speed and drive trains are almost all tank. I am not trying to insult anyone's designing if they use these things, I mean my team does too, this year in my opinion is about how good your driver is and how smoothly you do the same things as everyone else (with the exception of loops). Simbotics, I think, does these things more smoothly than most and has a good driver, these are the reasons for their success.