[Bill Gold]

Forward:
I’d like to thank Paul Copioli and Mike Rush for bringing calm, and very pointfilled arguments to the opposition’s side. I have a tremendous amount of respect for the two of you, although I’ve only had the pleasure of meeting Mike in person once. I hope ,with all of my heart, that you two do not take what I’m about to say personally... I’m just trying to keep a healthy exchange of points going here.

I served as an officer in the USAF after attending the US Air Force Academy and have witnessed many covert operations. You may not trust GW, but if we have information then it was most likely obtained covertly and revealing the information could put very brave US service persons in grave danger. Many individuals not too much older than you are putting their life on the lines right now for you and for me. Please do not minimize the importance of their job just because you do not like who our President is.
-Paul Copioli

Yes, I understand where you’re coming from with regards to the covert operations and espionage. My grandfather is a retired Brigadier General in the USAF, my uncle served in the USAF for 6+ years, and my father worked as a civilian for the USAF (or Army, I forget which) examining the telemetry of Russian rockets. In short, yes I can understand trying to keep the anonymity of our men/women spying for us in other countries. But where does this get us? It allows people like me to question the validity of, or even existence of evidence which supports most of your theory that we should oust Saddam, or bomb his weapons plants. Just as a personal note, there are quite a few things that I admire about Pres. Bush. I don’t loathe him unconditionally as some people do, but he has had a history of actions which leads me to believe that he doesn’t care about me, my life, my health, my future, or my standard of living. But if it was any other man or woman standing behind a podium telling me that there’s undeniable, irrefutable proof that action needs to take place, telling me that I (if ordered) needed to risk my life to preserve the way of life of our people, I would still ask to see the evidence anyway. I don’t trust as easily as some of you do (not aimed at anyone in particular, just a statement).

So, production stays the same, but demand increases several fold and that doesn't cause a shortage?
-Jim Giacchi

You’ve got to be kidding. I’ll explain it with the hopes that you will skim through your school Economics book and try to figure out what I mean, instead of misinterpreting my quotes. During our manipulated crisis, Enron and others claimed that consumption increased several fold, and that supply remained the same over that same period of time. Yes, you’re right this would cause a shortage. But what you don’t realize, understand, know about is that supply was actually cut off during that year by Enron (among others), while demand stayed roughly the same over a period of a year. This too causes a shortage and skyrocketing prices, all manipulated by the companies. Now you may be asking yourselves “Why would anyone want to reduce the quantity of a product they sell? Wouldn’t that earn them less money in the long run?” The answer is simply “No.” CA, in desperate need for more electricity, was forced to buy electricity from other states for this new “market value” of electricity. Then CA, thinking it was a demand side problem as Enron claimed, decided it should enter into long term energy contracts with Enron at a price somewhere in between the equilibrium price pre-market manipulation, and post market manipulation. In the end, CA gets more than enough energy, and Enron makes a buttload of cash it shouldn’t have. Don’t you dare try to pass yourself off as a scholar on a topic of which you don’t know a thing. You didn’t live through this. You’re ~3,000 miles away for crying out loud. Drop this part of the conversation before you look like even more of an idiot.

Errr.. 50 muslim dudes on an airplane???? Doesn't that scream out terrorist attack? Guys can we stop making up stupid scenerios.
-wysiswyg

I’m with Foto. “That is one of the most insensitive, racially prejudiced, and ignorant statements I have ever read in my entire life. You, so far as I can tell, are the worst epitome of the pompus, racist, anti-non-American thought that I have taken the time out of my busy schedule to be disgusted by. The fact that I am even replying to this comment is amazing me, as I type these very word. Where do you get off saying that a flight on which there happen to be a large proportion of people who appear to be from the Middle East (much less assuming that they are Muslim, or the other way around) constitutes a "terrorist attack"?” I’d also like to add that Al Queda doesn’t enlist only “muslim dudes” as you put it. There have been members of all nationalities, and races attending those training camps. Al Queda even boasts this. You disgust me.

What is your definition of the truth anyway?? Im confused if I watch five differnt news stations then it means I have learned nothing?? Most of those news stations I watch always have a pro invasion and non pro invasion. There will always be bias in anything we say and do. Nothing strange in that I just site facts nothing more. ABC just recently showed a newsworthy story about a woman close to Saddaam. The US govornment managed to back up her stories.
-wysiswyg

The news stations which you’re referring to are most likely FOX, CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, or any of their affiliates. In this case, yes. If you watch five of these news stations and listen to their stories you haven’t learned anything. It’s all the same American, and American government point of view, force fed, nonsense. Michael said it better than me, “Their programming is driven by advertising dollars, just like any other television network, and their success depends entirely on maintaining viewership.” This being said, I don’t trust our government to corroborate an ABC “news story” about some woman who knew Saddam. If I’m not mistaken, it was you, wysiswyg, who said the following in a post on page 3 of this thread:

Sigh... There is something called the news. There job is to coroborate the information from the government and make sure its true. There has been credible news stories that are trickling in that show that he needs to been booted.
-wysiswyg

There seems to be a contradiction in your posts. If you believe it’s the job of the news to corroborate the government, to keep them in check.. why would you trust the government to corroborate a news story? It appears to me that this logic of yours proves that the news media and the government could be knowingly in the wrong, yet get you to believe them anyway. Frightening epiphany, eh?

to be continued...