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Unread 29-11-2001, 13:38
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kmcclary kmcclary is offline
Founder 830/1015;Mentor 66/470/1502
FRC #0470 (Alpha Omega Robotics)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Rookie Year: 1994
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 491
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Confusing

The rules about timeouts did cause our team some confusion, too.

Just so everyone knows, the audience couldn't see everything that was happening.

All of the delay was not simply an "extended time out". There were also a lot of things happening on the field causing delays that LOOKED like extended time outs but really weren't. There were two other rulings that had to be made during that time to clear up, and the judges stopped play during those rulings.

1) Timeouts were allocated by alliance, not by team, and no board display showed the timeout status. These things, taken together, interacted and caused some of the confusion and you saw that day.

I was one of 830's coaches. At one point during this drivetrain crisis, we tried to use a timeout to help our alliance partner, 469. I approached an official for what we thought would be our FIRST MINUTE of our five minutes of Time Out. Neither I nor the official I approached were aware that no timeouts were left for our alliance to use, because there was no way to easily determine it! The official said "OK". I told 469 they had five more minutes. I then left the area, thinking we now had five more minutes. Then a few seconds later, the official ran back over to each of us and said we had no time outs left, which confused everyone. I said we hadn't used any of OUR time yet. There was some delay while we found another judge to sort out how this situation could happen.

It turned out that our alliance partner had already used it all up all of the JOINT TIME without telling us!

Now the problem is NOT that we want to prevent that. We were GLAD they used it! Rather, the difficulty was that the rules allowed what in most sports might be considered ONE team's resource to be consumed by another team without their knowledge.

No consulting was required between alliance partners to use a timeout. That is reasonable in this case, but since we were on opposite sides of the field, this lead to a SERIOUS information gap between alliance partners. We thought we still had a full five minutes available for US in case WE needed it! That in turn definitely caused some of the some confusion seen by everyone on the field while things stopped so we could all figure this out.

2) Just so everyone knows it, when 469 was in trouble with a slipping drivetrain the Blue alliance DID try to help out to get 469 back into the game by donating some of their time. When we found out there were no timeouts left, the Blue team on the audience's right side generously called for a timeout (so they could get a chance to soundly trounce us fair and square ;-).

However, the rules only allowed for one five minute "timeout block" per round, and so the Blue offer was refused by the judges. FYI to all, this ALSO caused some of the confusion and delay seen during 469's repair time while THAT was being looked up and ruled upon, although to the audience that may have LOOKED like part of the timeout.

BTW, even though Blue's timeout donation wasn't accepted by the refs, we'd like to *sincerely* thank the Blue alliance partner that round for their gracious gesture! We felt that showed GREAT sportsmanship, and was truly in the FIRST spirit! If someone could please review a video tape and tell us who that was (the Blue team on the audience's right while 469 was making repairs), we'd like to personally acknowledge and thank them for their kind act.

For future notes:

Having any rule that can allow two independent taps on a single resource (especially from opposite sides of the field) creates cases where a resource one team may desperately need may suddenly find it consumed without their knowledge. When you have no simple way to ascertain that knowledge, confusion occurs. Even though it is a "common" resource in this game we can see how awkward that information gap can be.

Suggestion A) I would like to see in future competitions that involve games with alliances that each TEAM be given some Time Out time allocation that they alone control. IMHO giving each TEAM five minutes to fix their machine would be very fair, and help prevent confusion like this in the future.

Suggestion B) Future games with timeouts should include TIMEOUT(S) LEFT displays for each team/alliance on the master screen board indicating what everyone has left. Then we ALL can refer to them and eliminate some of the confusion.

Suggestion C) It would also be nice if the rules allowed one team or alliance on the field to donate time to another. That is the way football games and most other sports work, but was forbidden by this year's rules. Since it is a finite resource in total for all teams, it wouldn't really affect total match time. It may even become important strategically for everyone involved. Heck, *I* really want to rumble WITH the other teams in it, if it's at all possible! <grin>


I hope you all won't get too down on the judges. Although our team happened to benefit somewhat this time around from a ruling, I believe almost all of that "extra time" was in reality a side effect of a series of "ref time outs" to rule on these other issues and clear up informational confusion.

I also think overall the judges did a WONDERFUL job everywhere. I've rarely seen refs working so hard to see that EVERYONE was kept up and in the competition whenever possible. During the contest itself, compared to most of the sports I've ever watched you don't normally see such rapid, decisive, and fair judging, nor such sportsmanship on the part of all of the teams.

I'd also like to thank the judges for chasing personnel off of the field at Freeze MANY times during the competition, instead of being nasty and saying: "BZZZZ! Too bad, time's up, you're still here, and so your team is OUT! Hahahahaha!!" I thought that it was admirable they DIDN'T do that!

On behalf of Team 830 and all of us, I'd like to thank ALL of the judges for their dedication to come out, their generous donation of time, and all of their efforts to help make this a wonderful experience for everyone.

- Keith McClary, Advisor, Team 830 "The Rat Pack"
ACTI - Automation Computer Technologies, Inc.
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Keith McClary - Organizer/Mentor/Sponsor - Ann Arbor MI area FIRST teams
ACTI - Automation Computer Technologies, Inc. (Sponsoring FIRST teams since 2001!)
MI Robot Club (Trainer) / GO-Tech Maker's Club / RepRap-Michigan) / SEMI CNC Club
"Certifiably Insane": Started FIVE FRC teams & many robot clubs (so far)!
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