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Unread 12-12-2002, 19:19
K. Skontrianos's Avatar
K. Skontrianos K. Skontrianos is offline
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Late Qualifying

Personally, I don't care where the nationals are held. In fact, I've been to Florida so many times, that I wouldn't mind seeing something new. What concerns me is how are teams that qualify for the nationals during the season are supposed to prepare for the trip. Besides the enormous money that would need to be gathered quickly, there's a ton of red tape to go through before such a trip could be approved. Just imagine finishing a regional on Saturday and having to fly out Wednesday morning. It comes down to having only 3 days to get ready if you qualified at one of the last regionals. I don't see how something like this is plausible, let alone fair to those teams. Its even worse if the students must pay for part or all of the trip, in which case they could be asked to come up with $500 - 1500 in a few days. Then, of course, shipping for the robot and parts must be arranged. With all these factors and the additional bureacracy that schools dish out, Nationals seem practically impossible. I hope FIRST finds a way around this issue, but judging from what I've seen so far I don't envision anything changing at all. Do any other teams have a plan for this scenario? I'd love to hear it.
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Unread 12-12-2002, 20:02
Chris Nowak Chris Nowak is offline
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Well, for one thing the red tape legal nonsense can be covered before you go, even if you dont expect to go you can fill out power of attorney forms and such just in case your team does go. As far as money goes, I suppose it depends on your sponsorship as to whether or not youll be able to afford those last minute plane tickets, or if you want to reserve ahead of time and get a partial refund if you dont qualify. However, this money lost would probably be on the student's part, at least for our team, so It might be hard to convince parents to take such a gamble. Well, if worst comes to worst I'm sure taking a vacation to Houston even if we dont qualify won't be so bad But we wouldnt get all of the First rates on hotels and such.
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Unread 12-12-2002, 21:36
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We did it last year

K-

Last year the Raiders failed to qualify at Rutgers due to our second place finish. Our only choice was to go on the waiting list.

FIRST notified us that we were invited less than two weeks before the event and we scrambled to get arrangements made.

Here is what we did-

1. We GAMBLED $2500+ on airfares booked well in advance. Each ticket had a $100 non refundable deposit. The airline wanted a seating list 2 weeks in advance. Three days notice might mess them up but supposedly Continental is working with FIRST this year and they may give an exception. I booked for our team already and they gave us tremendous rates. You can pick up the boarding passes at their office in Edison. If you book at the last minute not only will the flights be fille dup but the price of individual tickets will be ridiculous.

2. I had all our parents sign a pledge to support the remainder of the student balances for the trip if we indeed get invited. My team works most of the year to fund raise for their individual trips and most were nearly paid by the time the season hit. The parents also filled out all of the permission slips and such well in advance. When the invite came we had all the money in 24 hrs. We essentially assumed that we were going and prepared for the trip. If you don't have your travel money lined up in advance then trying to gather it in 3 days will be a nightmare.

3. We worked through Disney for the rooms and it miraculously came to be. I imagine that you could book rooms in the hotels FIRST offers and cancel a few days in advance w/o penalty. Many hotels only require 24hrs notice but we don't know the deal with FIRST yet.

4. Getting the robot to the Nats from NJ is going to be a challenge. We don't know if Fedex can handle the 4 day delivery period (I doubt it) and FIRST's position is that the transport is up to the teams. The NJ Regional group and FIRST are exploring reasonable solutions to this debacle as we speak.

I am assuming that FIRST is holding slots for the teams that qualify at the last minute this year. They had a working formula last year and this year there are even more regionals to have slots for. What that means is that at the last minute a whole bunch of teams will suddenly realize that they can go to Texas but won't have funding. So a few slots may be open.
FIRST will probably offer a waiting list as they did last year so be sure to get on it right away. We ended up as #3 on the list last year and I think we were the last ones to get invited.

Don't give up on this - just be prepared. if we can help at team 25 let me know.

WC
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Unread 12-12-2002, 21:53
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Tip to the teams that might qualify but don't have sponsors funding it.

For those teams that need to pay $500+ out of pocket if your team goes to nationals, talk with your mentor about having the entire team each deposit $XXX.XX and if you don't make it then you get it back, but if you do, the scramble is easier. Say, if you'd need to pay $500, deposit $300 or so during the build season and if you make it the team has your 300 and the other member's 300's, air fare and other accomidations are easier to get than "Ok everyone, $500 is due tomarrow or we can't go!"
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Unread 12-12-2002, 22:39
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I agree. This removes the financial burden.

Take how much money you need to raise to get to nats/other regional.
Divide over team members going
Add Some to make it even
And then you have the amount each person brings!

So if you are down 2000
15 people are going
120 per person
add 30 to make it even
150 per person
not only are you solved, but then you have 1000 to trow around incase something breaks
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Unread 13-12-2002, 07:31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Nowak
Well, for one thing the red tape legal nonsense can be covered before you go, even if you dont expect to go you can fill out power of attorney forms and such just in case your team does go. As far as money goes, I suppose it depends on your sponsorship as to whether or not youll be able to afford those last minute plane tickets, or if you want to reserve ahead of time and get a partial refund if you dont qualify. However, this money lost would probably be on the student's part, at least for our team, so It might be hard to convince parents to take such a gamble. Well, if worst comes to worst I'm sure taking a vacation to Houston even if we dont qualify won't be so bad But we wouldnt get all of the First rates on hotels and such.
here's the major concern. Chris and I are on the same team and knowing the way it's run our team won't book in advance. this same situation is probably true with other teams, or 'rookie' teams that will do well in competition. Also we compete at the last two regionals....dat sucks.
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Unread 13-12-2002, 07:54
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Which is why the two ideas JosephM and I proposed are useful. You may not know the exact cost off-hand, but you can call the airport and find out an estimate, then use JosephM and I's deposit method so you don't have to come up with the money in 2 days. Especially if you have some distance to travel home after that last one.

Propose that sort of system to your mentor, ask if "we can get the team to deposit X dollars each" so you have something to work with and people not left behind.

If you qualify for nationals, by something other than team number, you deserve to be there and hopefully will find a way to make it there. (Now I'm not saying those odd teams shouldn't be there, everyone deserves the chance to be there, but the even team's this year are qualified by merit and quality).
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Unread 13-12-2002, 08:41
Moshingkow Moshingkow is offline
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Redtape can be the worst thing that ever happened to you. Last year, our team was slated for the nats. we were all ready to go. I had gone home from school to go get my bag so I could go to the airport. just as I was leaving my house to go to the cab waiting downstairs, I get a call from my assistant principal. The trip was canceled. Apparantley, some papers were not filed until 2 days before, and the principal diddnt take the time to look at them, so we ended up wasting about 3000 on the plane tickets, 5000 on the entry fee, and the hotel rooms I think we got refunded, but that coulda been another 6000. All im saying is BE PREPARED, dont get screwed like we did last year.

TENKAI
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Unread 13-12-2002, 08:52
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Quote:
Originally posted by Moshingkow
Redtape can be the worst thing that ever happened to you. Last year, our team was slated for the nats. we were all ready to go. I had gone home from school to go get my bag so I could go to the airport. just as I was leaving my house to go to the cab waiting downstairs, I get a call from my assistant principal. The trip was canceled. Apparantley, some papers were not filed until 2 days before, and the principal diddnt take the time to look at them, so we ended up wasting about 3000 on the plane tickets, 5000 on the entry fee, and the hotel rooms I think we got refunded, but that coulda been another 6000. All im saying is BE PREPARED, dont get screwed like we did last year.

TENKAI
Ohhh guys, sorry about that.
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Unread 13-12-2002, 11:00
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Quote:
Apparantley, some papers were not filed until 2 days before, and the principal diddnt take the time to look at them
Did your team get reimbursed by the school?
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Unread 13-12-2002, 13:17
Moshingkow Moshingkow is offline
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nah, our school isnt all that supportive of the robotics team. (even though it is called Brooklyn TECHNICAL High School)
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Unread 13-12-2002, 13:57
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Considering as of right now there are 4 spots left, I don't think it really matters if you do qualify late, there will be no spots left.
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Unread 13-12-2002, 14:15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Johca_Gaorl
Considering as of right now there are 4 spots left, I don't think it really matters if you do qualify late, there will be no spots left.
I have a feeling that the 238 magic number that FIRST is using is for open registration only...I'm almost certain that they are saving spots for those teams that qualify at this year's events, and then will open those spots up to waiting list teams if a team who qualifies is not able to attend, or is already going...
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Unread 13-12-2002, 14:59
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292 teams went to Florida last year, but only 238 were allowed to register initially. More spots will be available later on. Anyways, the problem with a deposit is that if we don't get to go, the majority of that money(i.e. plane tickets) will not be refunded. Since the team has only paid for the robot shipping and registration in the past, the students would then be burdened with the hotel, plane, food, entry fees, etc. If this money cannot be refunded, then the students would be gambling. No one will support the trip then and it will be cancelled anyway. So, I don't think that will turn out well. I'm sure something can be worked out, we'll have to see.
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