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View Poll Results: What is your most prefered programming language?
C++ 91 43.96%
PBasic 11 5.31%
QBasic 8 3.86%
Java 36 17.39%
Other (Please List) 61 29.47%
Voters: 207. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Unread 17-01-2003, 16:07
Zmeko Zmeko is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Freehold Iowa
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Quote:
It is always fun to watch rob deal with a newb. Usually he can keep his cool, but not always. Rob, you are hilarious.
Yep, Rob, you are truly hilarious.

Now where should I start arguing Rob’s propositions.
Should I state that Java code runs on a VM? Or should I state the facts of the “Level of abstraction”. No, I got it, I should argue the fact that he had misread my statement.
Quote:
[QOUTE]
Quoted from the most important person in the computer programming world: Bjarne Stroustrup .
That's a little presumptuous. I'd argue that the orignal Xerox team that came up with the first graphical OS was much more important. As were the people who helped move computing from the business world into homes (read: Steve Jobs, Compaq, etc).[/quote]
Where did I state the Bjarne was the most important person in the computing world?
Eh, we Canadians Baptist must be blind!

Quote:
Ever since I can write a program with a GUI and compile the same source code on just about any platform without putting #ifdefs around everything.
When you compile Java code for the JavaVM, the compilers compiles it to Java Byte code. Byte codes are like Opt codes except java byte codes can only run on the JavaVM.
JavaVM adds a level of abstraction or a layer that the code runs on. Java, like you said, can compile the same source code for any version of the JavaVM or any port of it. Java it self, compiles code that’s dependent to the JavaVM. JavaVM in this sense is a platform, the compiled Java code doesn’t run on the system but rather on the JavaVM. The JavaVM runs on the system, have you read Design Patterns (ref: Proxy (207)). Proxy design is like the design used in the JavaVM. The proxy objects allow accesses of many objects indirectly. JavaVM has objects that mirror the systems API.

Quote:
If Java isn't cross-platform, then what is? And don't say "C/C++" because you can't do Jack without platform-specific libraries (MFC, X11, etc) or messy "cross-platform" libraries like Qt, Gtk+, Tcl/Tk, etc.
You like you said, “ you can’t do jack without platform-specific libraries…”. Java also can not do scat without platform-specific libraries, but in java you do not have direct accesses to these system dependent APIs. You have accesses to Java’s API, this API is handled by the VM and the VM interface with the system.

Now, I don’t understand what I can not say C/C++ is the closet thing, right now, to a cross-platform language, either way; I challenge your arguments and thus I should able to challenge your statement, “And don't say "C/C++"” (Ala, you have not provide any adequate proof that your statement is fact).

C/C++ is more of a cross-platform language then java, because when the compiler compiles its code, they compile code that the native system can understand, java compiles byte code that depends on the JavaVM which could reside on or above the: services/daemons layer or application layer. When you run C/C++ code, the code can run on the kernel level, daemon/service level, application or any other layer/level. I know for a fact you can create an application that can ask a file for an entry point then continue executing the code from there, this could add another layer of abstraction.

You can do a lot with a ported version of the standard library, but you are right when you say that you need system dependent API to do GUI. I guess I can safely assume you do not know what controls the GUI drawing API in an operating system, I can assume this by what you have stated, “(MFC, X11, etc).”, MFC and X11 isn’t anything a like, one is a wrapper and one provides API for drawing, I will let you guess which one is which.

Most the daemons or services written are written in C or C++. These daemons are executed by the kernel, the daemons run services like: apache for http server or ftp services, in windows daemons are called services. Without these services you can not do much. This daemons/services are vital to an operating system and it is one of the components that make an operating system operate.

Quote:
If you download Linux, screw around with it, and then recompile it, it's no longer Linux. It's now your custom code based off of Linux. Anyway, this is kinda like asking "if I went in and randomly changed a few bytes of user.dll, would you still consider Windows to be better than DOS?" Even so, I would still consider your version of Linux to be better than Windows for the simple reason that I could take your source code, fix it, and have it working again if I chose to.
Not really, who says that I have to release the source code of my modified version of the kernel and who said that a modified version of the kernel isn’t still linux?

Anyways, I wrote enough about this, here some links:.
Linux for newbies

If you wish for further proof of my statements, please do not be afraid to ask.
Rember, this isn't my vocation...
Nor i think it's yours, but it's only me opinion.

Last edited by Zmeko : 17-01-2003 at 16:38.
 


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