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Unread 26-02-2003, 23:44
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pic: Team 870 Suction Cups

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Unread 26-02-2003, 23:51
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Our first ideas were to use out riggers and have 4 suction cups about that size or a little bit bigger, but after some testing we found out you could put 130 lb of suction cups if you wanted and they would do absolutely nothing. When you have a bot that weighs 130 pounds crash into you at 12 FPS your bot is gonna move thats a given, no matter how many suction cups you have.
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Unread 26-02-2003, 23:58
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wow...those things are humongous.

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Unread 27-02-2003, 00:02
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Suction cups are kinda sketchy in my view. First they are only meant to resist force trying to pull them away from a surface. Second they work best on smooth surfaces. They don't resist nearly the same amount of force laterally. The amount of grip there gonna provide on a gouged surface is nothing compared to a good high COF >2 material.

Saying that 130lbs at 10+ ft per second is alot of bot for anything to stop. Just think of all those walls people have dented with a rampaging bot. At this point I'd put my money on a bot that has an inclined surface such as 229 and swampthing.

Watch this vid to see what I mean about the incline of 229.
http://www.clarkson.edu/~usfirst/our...d/WingTest.avi
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Unread 27-02-2003, 00:14
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Quote:
Originally posted by sevisehda
Suction cups are kinda sketchy in my view. First they are only meant to resist force trying to pull them away from a surface. Second they work best on smooth surfaces. They don't resist nearly the same amount of force laterally. The amount of grip there gonna provide on a gouged surface is nothing compared to a good high COF >2 material.
It would seem to me that you have done little to no research on suctioncups. The right one can be incredibly strong and there are even some that can resist a lateral force better than an upward pulling force.
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Unread 27-02-2003, 00:33
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Quote:
Originally posted by sevisehda
Suction cups are kinda sketchy in my view. First they are only meant to resist force trying to pull them away from a surface. Second they work best on smooth surfaces. They don't resist nearly the same amount of force laterally.
Bingo! Which is why I designed an L-shaped bumper system that dampened horizontal forces and then converted them to vertical forces. Therefore, before you could even start pushing the robot across the HDPE one would have to pull up the suction cups--a difficult task.

I personally thought my system was ingenious, but my team wouldn't even try it--possibly because it's never been tried before. I think this bumper system would make suction cups an invaluable resource.

Is this just my superiority complex speaking or was I on to something? (It's ok to be brutal )
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Unread 27-02-2003, 06:40
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If your speaking of an L shaped bumper that pivoted in the bend its been done in the past. Except it was used to lift the agressing bot an inch or so off the ground so it would loose traction while the L bumper equipped bot would gain some.

I still don't see how your going to get suction if theres a gouge in the HDPE.
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Unread 27-02-2003, 08:45
Katie Reynolds Katie Reynolds is offline
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The possibility of gouges on the surface of the HDPE is the reason we didn't use suction cups. We found that even a fairly tiny scratch would weaken the suction so much that even I could pull the cups off with no problem (and I'm pretty weak! ) We tried a number of different things ... everything from gouges in the surface, to little scratches. We used plain ol' suction cups, and we used suction cups with a vacuum. The bottom line: No matter how tiny the scratch/gouge/mark/irregularity on the surface is, the hold of the suction cup will be weakened considerably.

Anyway, your bot looks great guys. Good luck!

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Last edited by Katie Reynolds : 27-02-2003 at 14:13.
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Unread 27-02-2003, 10:24
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In defense of suction cups:

Suction cups that mechanically create a vacuum are actually pretty good at handling lateral force. They are the kind that are used for moving large panes of glass. One suction cup independently definitely won't stop 130lbs at 10 fps, but multiple ones, well placed, and backed up with good drive system, can probably stop all but the most powerful (and determined) bot.

edit- the way we tested this - a 160 student did pullups hanging on to 2 suction cups attached to a vertical pane of glass. Probably not the smartest thing, but it proves that they will hold lateral force. Also, multiple suction cups spaced out will minimize the chance that a large scratch will mess them up.
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Last edited by f22flyboy : 27-02-2003 at 10:27.
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Unread 27-02-2003, 10:34
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A 220 pound student on our team did pullups on two 4.5" di mechanical suction cups stuck to an enamel painted door jam. Also, I stuck one to the top of my washing machine and pushed it sideways as hard as I could and it would not budge. I even hit it with a hammer too and it didn't really move. There's a lot of science behind suction cups.
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Unread 27-02-2003, 10:42
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you have the same ones we do... good thing you aren't coming to our regionals
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Unread 27-02-2003, 11:55
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We tested a vaccum cup on our robot and it was crazy, we had 4 people pushing the robot and it barely moved!! With two vaccum cups its gonna be really hard to move someone.
We did no use the vaccum cup because of weight but we have two smaller cups that work really well as long as we clean them before a match.
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Unread 27-02-2003, 12:07
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I hope that teams out there won't be coating the botton of their suction cups with gels or fluids to try to get a better seal, that would get a pretty quick DQ in IMHO.
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Unread 27-02-2003, 13:06
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Whats on the pink wheels? There is no really good pics of it.
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Unread 27-02-2003, 15:08
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If a team puts the thought into suction cups, they could be effective. I think many teams probably grabbed a plunger from the bathroom, slammed it down onto the HDPE, and then after watching it easily slide across the top, wrote off suction as an unworkable idea.

My team's fear of suction cups is the unpredictable nature of how much the HDPE will get scractched. We're pretty sure it's going to have some deep gauges from things like omniwheels, robots falling over, totes falling over, flailing arms, etc.
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