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Unread 02-03-2003, 14:58
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Re: Re: The Voice of Dissent

Quote:
Originally posted by Raul
Sorry, but I have to strongly disagree. I have spare parts that I wish to make lighter to make sure I have a margin of safety with making the 130 lb limit. But there is no way I feel right doing it until we get to the competition.
Well, where I'm concerned, it really depends on how FIRST decides to treat the future team update that will, hopefully, clarify all of these rules. As things stand, though, I still don't think that there's anything wrong with; assuming, of course, that you're operating under the assumption that there exists no rule that prohibits doing that, and that the latest post by FIRST on the message board is the most accurate. Under those assumptions, I don't believe it to be illegal. Any other conditions would have to be examined as the situation arises.


Quote:
If you fabricate spares now and FIRST says "stop", they will likely also make it illegal to use parts fabricated after shipping, not just parts fabricated after they say "stop".
Given FIRST's history of appreciating the time and resources teams expend on their robots, it's my suspicion that anything manufactured before FIRST's clarification, identical spare part or otherwise (as per my question regarding FIRST's resonses on the official message board) would be grandfathered in. Just as the tether-type mechanisms were allowed at last year's competition due to many teams having spent many resources on them, I expect something similar would happen. For FIRST to say, at this juncture, that parts made within the rules as they exist now, especially after shipping, seems somewhat akin to changing the weight limit to 110 lbs. at this late juncture.

Of course, I understand that this isn't black and white where, perhaps, it should be. I really respect your insight, Raul.

Quote:
If you create a new design and prototype it and then fabricate the same thing at the competition, then I would say you will be within the rules. But if you intend to install any parts made for the new design before the competition, that would be illegal.
If FIRST makes any ruling that prohibits our team from using parts fabricated after our robot shipped, we will not use anything at all from our prototype at the competitions. Instead, we're expecting that, like years passed, we will be allowed until Tuesday or Wednesday following the regional to make necessary changes and adjustments to our robot. We will use that time to refabricate those components and bring them along to our second regional. As such, provided FIRST does ask us to stop making new parts, the only time you'll see that retrofit at our first regional event will be as we test it - off the field.

Quote:
Yes, of course the rules have not yet been releases by FIRST. But after 8 years of doing this, I think I can predict what the rule will be; it has not changed much in the past. The only differences in the past have been whether they allowed us to take the robot with us and ship in on Tuesday, versus shipping it on Saturday after each competition, also, whether or not new functionality could be fabricated until that Tuesday.
While I don't yet have 8 years of experience (though, I'm getting there), and I respect that the rule has been quite the same for the past few years, FIRST's dragging of their feet seems to me that, perhaps, there are changes in the works. Perhaps not, but I can't think of any reasons why they would be waiting quite so long to make these clarifications, especially if it's just to be a rehash of existing rules. Time will tell, I guess.

My philosophy has been to follow the rules as they exist at that moment (or don't exist, as the case may be), and make changes to suit the rules should they change. I don't think there's anything the least bit unethical about that.
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Last edited by Madison : 02-03-2003 at 15:02.
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