Go to Post The first team that uses a lawyer to interpret the rules should be disqualified from all competitions, just on general principles. - dlavery [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > FIRST > Robot Showcase
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #16   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 16-03-2003, 17:42
Mike Schroeder's Avatar
Mike Schroeder Mike Schroeder is offline
Gone the way of the dinosaur
AKA: "Big Mike"
no team
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Rookie Year: 1999
Location: North Brunswick, NJ
Posts: 1,872
Mike Schroeder has a reputation beyond reputeMike Schroeder has a reputation beyond reputeMike Schroeder has a reputation beyond reputeMike Schroeder has a reputation beyond reputeMike Schroeder has a reputation beyond reputeMike Schroeder has a reputation beyond reputeMike Schroeder has a reputation beyond reputeMike Schroeder has a reputation beyond reputeMike Schroeder has a reputation beyond reputeMike Schroeder has a reputation beyond reputeMike Schroeder has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Mike Schroeder Send a message via Yahoo to Mike Schroeder
as replic said many matches we ran 50%, apperently switching our gearbox from plastic to steel gears was really a bad idea, we had sooo much torque we kept destroying the transmissions on the drills, they really need to come up with better motor mounts next year
__________________
GOT SEARCH?

"We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard"-JFK
  #17   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 16-03-2003, 17:47
Serg's Avatar
Serg Serg is offline
Team Alumnus
AKA: The Milling Man
#0053 (AREA 53)
Team Role: Mechanical
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Greenbelt Maryland
Posts: 19
Serg is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via ICQ to Serg Send a message via AIM to Serg
It was still a very neat tranny thoug. Very well designed
__________________
----------------------------------------------------------------
GO AREA 53
  #18   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 16-03-2003, 17:48
Keith Chester's Avatar
Keith Chester Keith Chester is offline
HGFSP
FRC #0025 (Team 25)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: North Brunswick, NJ
Posts: 382
Keith Chester is a splendid one to beholdKeith Chester is a splendid one to beholdKeith Chester is a splendid one to beholdKeith Chester is a splendid one to beholdKeith Chester is a splendid one to beholdKeith Chester is a splendid one to behold
Send a message via AIM to Keith Chester
The torque situation is fixed though, thankfully. It was a nightmare replacing the motors in our highschool, but moreso in Annapolis because we didn't have the luxury of time as we did before shipping.
__________________
A proud graduate of 25.
Students. Teammates. Brothers.
Proud member of R.I.N.O.S., Rookies In Need Of Support.
  #19   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 16-03-2003, 18:50
tjrage_25's Avatar
tjrage_25 tjrage_25 is offline
Mentor
AKA: Tom McLean
FRC #0025 (Raider Robotix)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 82
tjrage_25 is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to tjrage_25
The problem with our drive train was that the drills were mounted to absorb any forces from stopping too quickly with the drill brakes engaged. This turned into a problem when the mount was actually twisting the motors out of position, and dismounting the transmission. That is why we ended three matches with our drill tranys laying dead on the field. We fixed this, in quite a hurry I might add, by making the mounts rigid, now it works like a dream, and faster too!!!

It was a little hard to see it through the boxes, but we had a little too much speed. The bot actually got some air off of the ramp during autonomous mode and flew through the boxes!

And if anyone was wondering why our bot was cutting out during elimination rounds, it was because we had all four drive motors and the compressor running (voltage at sometimes was down to 6v). Anyone have the stats on how many amps the compressor draws so we can fix this problem?
__________________
DRIVE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT!!!

Last edited by tjrage_25 : 16-03-2003 at 19:04.
  #20   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 16-03-2003, 19:26
Joe3's Avatar
Joe3 Joe3 is offline
Registered User
no team
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 283
Joe3 has a spectacular aura aboutJoe3 has a spectacular aura aboutJoe3 has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via AIM to Joe3
Quote:
Originally posted by tjrage_25
The problem with our drive train was that the drills were mounted to absorb any forces from stopping too quickly with the drill brakes engaged. This turned into a problem when the mount was actually twisting the motors out of position, and dismounting the transmission. That is why we ended three matches with our drill tranys laying dead on the field. We fixed this, in quite a hurry I might add, by making the mounts rigid, now it works like a dream, and faster too!!!

It was a little hard to see it through the boxes, but we had a little too much speed. The bot actually got some air off of the ramp during autonomous mode and flew through the boxes!

And if anyone was wondering why our bot was cutting out during elimination rounds, it was because we had all four drive motors and the compressor running (voltage at sometimes was down to 6v). Anyone have the stats on how many amps the compressor draws so we can fix this problem?
We ran into this problem last year at VCU, before we tuned down our drive train. We were going fast enough to reach the goals in 1.8 seconds, but in those 1.8 seconds, we were destabalizing batteries.we tried to solve this by manually turning the compressor on and off using a switch on the conroll box, andturning off all things but the drive motors, but we couldn't get it to draw much less current. So in the end, we ended up just slowing down our drive.
  #21   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 16-03-2003, 19:41
tjrage_25's Avatar
tjrage_25 tjrage_25 is offline
Mentor
AKA: Tom McLean
FRC #0025 (Raider Robotix)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 82
tjrage_25 is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to tjrage_25
There is a rule this year that allows teams to control the compressor via speed controller. I'm thinking about using that along with code that will analyze how fast the drive motors are running and adjust the current to the compressor accordingly.

If that doesn't work then we will disable the compressor during matches, our speed is way too important this year.
__________________
DRIVE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT!!!
  #22   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 16-03-2003, 20:44
Serg's Avatar
Serg Serg is offline
Team Alumnus
AKA: The Milling Man
#0053 (AREA 53)
Team Role: Mechanical
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Greenbelt Maryland
Posts: 19
Serg is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via ICQ to Serg Send a message via AIM to Serg
If im not mistaken, you only use pneumatics for the grippers to stack and on those extruding bars on your arm. You really only need to charge up the compressor before a match and leave it off. Even the Van Door motor can be off, cause you dont really raise the arms to begin with, just autonomous. You guys didnt really attempt stacking that much. You guys are pretty smart, im sure you will come up with someting that works lol
__________________
----------------------------------------------------------------
GO AREA 53

Last edited by Serg : 16-03-2003 at 20:51.
  #23   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 16-03-2003, 20:51
Keith Chester's Avatar
Keith Chester Keith Chester is offline
HGFSP
FRC #0025 (Team 25)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: North Brunswick, NJ
Posts: 382
Keith Chester is a splendid one to beholdKeith Chester is a splendid one to beholdKeith Chester is a splendid one to beholdKeith Chester is a splendid one to beholdKeith Chester is a splendid one to beholdKeith Chester is a splendid one to behold
Send a message via AIM to Keith Chester
Hmmmm.... you're right. Suggestion duly noted!
I guess we'll have to see how many times we can use wings and stackers in conjunction with only the storage cylinders.
__________________
A proud graduate of 25.
Students. Teammates. Brothers.
Proud member of R.I.N.O.S., Rookies In Need Of Support.
  #24   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 16-03-2003, 21:00
tjrage_25's Avatar
tjrage_25 tjrage_25 is offline
Mentor
AKA: Tom McLean
FRC #0025 (Raider Robotix)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 82
tjrage_25 is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to tjrage_25
We thought of that before, we only can open and close the arms 3 times with the 2 fully charged tanks and no compressor. We need 1 for autonomous mode, and if we have to plow the oppontents boxes we may need more. And yes the grippers are using pneumatics, but chances are that we are going to change them to something more sutable to our strategy.
__________________
DRIVE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT!!!
  #25   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 16-03-2003, 22:40
Mike Schroeder's Avatar
Mike Schroeder Mike Schroeder is offline
Gone the way of the dinosaur
AKA: "Big Mike"
no team
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Rookie Year: 1999
Location: North Brunswick, NJ
Posts: 1,872
Mike Schroeder has a reputation beyond reputeMike Schroeder has a reputation beyond reputeMike Schroeder has a reputation beyond reputeMike Schroeder has a reputation beyond reputeMike Schroeder has a reputation beyond reputeMike Schroeder has a reputation beyond reputeMike Schroeder has a reputation beyond reputeMike Schroeder has a reputation beyond reputeMike Schroeder has a reputation beyond reputeMike Schroeder has a reputation beyond reputeMike Schroeder has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Mike Schroeder Send a message via Yahoo to Mike Schroeder
Quote:
Originally posted by Serg
Even the Van Door motor can be off, cause you dont really raise the arms to begin with, just autonomous.


acctually, we always keep the van door motor on, to keep it in the position its in
if we dont, it will slowly fall
__________________
GOT SEARCH?

"We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard"-JFK
  #26   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 16-03-2003, 22:44
tjrage_25's Avatar
tjrage_25 tjrage_25 is offline
Mentor
AKA: Tom McLean
FRC #0025 (Raider Robotix)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 82
tjrage_25 is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to tjrage_25
Not true Mike, if the arm is all the way in the down position it is turned off.
__________________
DRIVE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT!!!
  #27   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 16-03-2003, 23:41
Serg's Avatar
Serg Serg is offline
Team Alumnus
AKA: The Milling Man
#0053 (AREA 53)
Team Role: Mechanical
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Greenbelt Maryland
Posts: 19
Serg is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via ICQ to Serg Send a message via AIM to Serg
See we on the other hand have that problem. Our arm stays 90 degreez to the ground, therefore, the van door is always running keeping it up. What rage_25 just said is what i thought. you guys always fold your arms down, i believed that you would disable the van door from holding it up.

We have a compressor switch, you guys should put one on too. We always left it on, but you guys can have it off and let it pump up again then turn it off. Believe me, you all didnt use pneumatics that much right?? just in Autonomous, and what an automomous that it. The quickest by far!!
__________________
----------------------------------------------------------------
GO AREA 53
  #28   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-03-2003, 00:20
The Lucas's Avatar
The Lucas The Lucas is offline
CaMOElot, it is a silly place
AKA: My First Name is really "The" (or Brian)
FRC #0365 (The Miracle Workerz); FRC#1495 (AGR); FRC#4342 (Demon)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Dela-Where?
Posts: 1,564
The Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to The Lucas
Couple suggestions

First be thankful that this problem hasn't cause your Robot Controller to enter Safe Mode during the voltage drop (when the voltage is lower than radio needed voltage). That happened to MOEhawk at VCU about every match until we re-geared it. The only way to get out of safe mode is to reset.

If you need to run your compressor, run it only when your drive system is in neutral, such as after autonomous routine has executed (takes like 5 sec for your fast bot) or when the joystick is in the deadzone (just add the compressor to the deadzone code). The compressor is notorious for surging at turn on (lil' MOE blows a 20A fuse at every event). As tjrage_25 mentioned before the compressor can run on a speed controller so u can implement a digital filter to bring it up to speed, avoiding the surge. Also, make sure the pressure switch is not bouncing on u turning it on and off rapidly. We always put a delay before we turn off so the pressure will not instantly drop below 120 psi after turn off.

For your Van Door Motor powered arms u might want to try the dynamic braking feature of the Victor speed controllers. Pull off (or set to AB) the jumper on the Victor (normally set to BC for coast) to select dynamic breaking mode. These settings only affect the behavior of the speed controller in neutral (PWM 127). Dynamic braking works by connecting the 2 leads of the motor together, essentially causing there to be no voltage across the motor thus no movement (think of it as forced movement on the motor generating a voltage that is fed back into the motor to drive it the opposite direction of the motion). This dynamic brake is not 100% efficient (mostly due to wire resistance), but depending on the force needed to backdrive your gearing and the moment of inertia of the arm it may work. So try the dynamic braking, since it only requires a simple jumper and code change, and it may solve your current draw problem by not running the van door constantly (also save u from van door burnout).

I like your proverb
"that which doesn't kill us makes us stronger. NOTHING comes easy for team 25"

Here is a proverb I came up with while fixing MOEhawk's wings
"He who takes everything from everybody is going to lose an arm in the process"

Good Luck. See you in Houston and probably about 5 invitationals after that.
__________________
Electrical & Programming Mentor ---Team #365 "The Miracle Workerz"
Programming Mentor ---Team #4342 "Demon Robotics"
Founding Mentor --- Team #1495 Avon Grove High School
2007 CMP Chairman's Award - Thanks to all MOE members (and others) past and present who made it a reality.
Robot Inspector
"I don't think I'm ever more ''aware'' than I am right after I burn my thumb with a soldering iron"
  #29   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-03-2003, 15:08
Keith Chester's Avatar
Keith Chester Keith Chester is offline
HGFSP
FRC #0025 (Team 25)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: North Brunswick, NJ
Posts: 382
Keith Chester is a splendid one to beholdKeith Chester is a splendid one to beholdKeith Chester is a splendid one to beholdKeith Chester is a splendid one to beholdKeith Chester is a splendid one to beholdKeith Chester is a splendid one to behold
Send a message via AIM to Keith Chester
thanks for the help Lucas and Serg. You guys were great at Annapolis.

As for seeing Geronimoe in competition again, I look forward to it, as we've never played against eachother.
__________________
A proud graduate of 25.
Students. Teammates. Brothers.
Proud member of R.I.N.O.S., Rookies In Need Of Support.
  #30   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-03-2003, 16:27
Wayne C.'s Avatar Unsung FIRST Hero
Wayne C. Wayne C. is offline
hey- I think we did pretty good?
FRC #0025 (Raider Robotix)
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Rookie Year: 1997
Location: North Brunswick, N.J.
Posts: 1,530
Wayne C. has a reputation beyond reputeWayne C. has a reputation beyond reputeWayne C. has a reputation beyond reputeWayne C. has a reputation beyond reputeWayne C. has a reputation beyond reputeWayne C. has a reputation beyond reputeWayne C. has a reputation beyond reputeWayne C. has a reputation beyond reputeWayne C. has a reputation beyond reputeWayne C. has a reputation beyond reputeWayne C. has a reputation beyond repute
there's always the off season....
__________________
you want that robot to do what?

Raider Robotix- www.raiderrobotix.org
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
pic: TEAM 610 ROBOT CD47-Bot Robot Showcase 13 29-03-2003 21:40
pic: A Side View of Team 898's robot CD47-Bot Robot Showcase 2 07-03-2003 03:05
Image Discuss: Team 159 Robot Pic 1 CD47-Bot Robot Showcase 2 17-02-2003 00:07
More 'Best' Robots (a well thought list) archiver 2000 2 23-06-2002 23:11
Disqualifications archiver 1999 13 23-06-2002 21:53


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 20:58.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi