Go to Post We try to limit ourselves only by physics. As the first person on the planet to communicate over a quantum encrypted AOL instant messenger session, I try to ignore those limits as well. - EricVanWyk [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Other > FIRST-related Organizations
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 2 votes, 4.50 average. Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-04-2003, 23:30
PsiMatt's Avatar
PsiMatt PsiMatt is offline
Supreme Mage of the Light
AKA: Matt Lee
no team (Schmobotics)
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Cerritos, CA
Posts: 58
PsiMatt is on a distinguished road
Send a message via ICQ to PsiMatt Send a message via AIM to PsiMatt Send a message via MSN to PsiMatt Send a message via Yahoo to PsiMatt
The Grand Challenge

Hello all you FIRSTers!

DARPA intends to conduct a challenge of autonomous ground vehicles (robots) between Los Angeles and Las Vegas in March of 2004. A cash award of $1 million will be granted to the team that fields the first vehicle to complete the designated route within a specified time limit. The purpose of the challenge is to leverage American ingenuity to accelerate the development of autonomous vehicle technologies that can be applied to military requirements. Many of the details of the event are being developed, and new information will be posted to their web site as soon as possible.

The website is: http://www.darpa.mil/grandchallenge

I am currently building a FIRST Coalition team from all those that may be interested to tackle this challenge, so if any of you are interested, please respond to this thread or email me at ILSDirector@aol.com. Remember...$1 million + Fame + Multi-million dollar contracts + Fun robot competition building and competition experience!
__________________
Founding Member, Team #1135
Supreme Leader, Team #1135
Rookie All-Star 2003

Matt, PsiGuardian of the Light
Lil' Schmoe of WHS Schmobotics

most feared phrase: "MATT...something went wrong...!"
Reply With Quote
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-04-2003, 23:56
Tyler 178's Avatar
Tyler 178 Tyler 178 is offline
Registered User
#1294 (Screws Loose)
Team Role: Driver
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Sammamish, WA
Posts: 34
Tyler 178 will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to Tyler 178
Sounds cool

I've looked at the competition and it looks pretty cool.

They say that the course is travelable by a regular chevy pickup, so our robot doesn't have to be insanely armored, and it shouldn't be impossible. Also, it's all autonomous, and even if your bot refuels itself it has to do it autonomously.

Sounds cool though, smart to get a team going of firsters.

Good luck!
Reply With Quote
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-04-2003, 00:37
sanddrag sanddrag is offline
On to my 16th year in FRC
FRC #0696 (Circuit Breakers)
Team Role: Teacher
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Glendale, CA
Posts: 8,519
sanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond repute
A GPS controlled airplane might work. Hey, this thing gives me an idea for next years competition. The robots have to drive them selves to nationals and whatver ones get there can compete in the nationals which would be the challenge of driving back.
__________________
Teacher/Engineer/Machinist - Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2011 - Present
Mentor/Engineer/Machinist, Team 968 RAWC, 2007-2010
Technical Mentor, Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2005-2007
Student Mechanical Leader and Driver, Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2002-2004
Reply With Quote
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-04-2003, 01:04
PsiMatt's Avatar
PsiMatt PsiMatt is offline
Supreme Mage of the Light
AKA: Matt Lee
no team (Schmobotics)
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Cerritos, CA
Posts: 58
PsiMatt is on a distinguished road
Send a message via ICQ to PsiMatt Send a message via AIM to PsiMatt Send a message via MSN to PsiMatt Send a message via Yahoo to PsiMatt
Hmm

Unfortunately, this is a competition involving autonomous ground vehicles so the GPS airplane won't work. O...If any of you are at the SoCal Regional, come to the station for team 1135 if you want more information.
__________________
Founding Member, Team #1135
Supreme Leader, Team #1135
Rookie All-Star 2003

Matt, PsiGuardian of the Light
Lil' Schmoe of WHS Schmobotics

most feared phrase: "MATT...something went wrong...!"
Reply With Quote
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-04-2003, 10:11
sanddrag sanddrag is offline
On to my 16th year in FRC
FRC #0696 (Circuit Breakers)
Team Role: Teacher
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Glendale, CA
Posts: 8,519
sanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Hmm

Quote:
Originally posted by PsiMatt
O...If any of you are at the SoCal Regional, come to the station for team 1135 if you want more information.
I'll stop by.
__________________
Teacher/Engineer/Machinist - Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2011 - Present
Mentor/Engineer/Machinist, Team 968 RAWC, 2007-2010
Technical Mentor, Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2005-2007
Student Mechanical Leader and Driver, Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2002-2004
Reply With Quote
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-04-2003, 22:05
Jnadke Jnadke is offline
Go Badgers!
#0093
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Appleton, WI
Posts: 775
Jnadke is on a distinguished road
Send a message via ICQ to Jnadke Send a message via AIM to Jnadke Send a message via Yahoo to Jnadke
I think you guys are underestimating the reality of this challenge.


Firstly, these courses are similar to something you'd see in professional dune buggy competition. Obviously, whatever you build is going to need to last. Even more-so than a FIRST robot. Simply, take the most robust FIRST robot you've seen and multiply it by 100.

Secondly, This is a challenge that is greater than 250 miles. They're expecting 250 miles alone in a desert course. A typical car can only do 300 miles. Obviously you're going to either need a very efficient engine, or you're going to need a very efficient solar/electrical vehicle. You must also keep in mind that the time limit is 10 hours. That's 30 miles per hour, even in the desert.

The programming and electrical engineering challenge of this task is astronomical. You need to design, build, and coordinate a guidance system of great proportions that can accurately depict hazards and correct its course. This fact alone would take someone with a PhD in either (or both) of these fields. GPS is accurate, but not that accurate. Let's just say it's the difference between being on the road and driving off a cliff, so you can't rely strictly on that.


Needless to say, in the process of building the vehicle, major breakthroughs will most likely need to occur or will hapen not only in the programming aspects, but in the design itself. This is no easy challenge like FIRST. FIRST is a cakewalk compared to this. I don't mean to be rude, but you simply won't have the resources to complete a task like this. If you manage to go 10 miles in this competition, I myself will give you $1000.

For people thinking of critisizing me, don't. Think, you only have a year to do this. Building a machine as complex of this is a large undertaking. There's simply too much to learn before you can even begin to think about designing something like this. You have to learn Materials Science, Mechanical Engineering, Electrical Engineering, Physics, and Computer Science in less than a year. You have to explore all the possibilities. You're better off designing stuff and waiting until the year after to do anything as massive as this. They said they'll do the competition until 2007.
__________________
The best moments of our lives fall in two categories: those that did happen and those that did not.

Last edited by Jnadke : 05-04-2003 at 22:19.
Reply With Quote
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-04-2003, 22:29
Madison's Avatar
Madison Madison is offline
Dancing through life...
FRC #0488 (Xbot)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1999
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 5,246
Madison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond repute
After briefly glancing at the rules, it seems to me that you'd want to retrofit an existing vehicle to complete this challenge. They say that it's a course that could be accomodated by any commercial four wheel drive vehicle, so I'd start by acquiring one of those. Convert it to a gasoline/electric hybrid and throw in oodles of solar cells.

Install an onboard computer system that is capable of controlling the trucks acceleration, braking, and steering. Also interface it with the vehicles existing sensors so that mechanical problems can be detected.

For navigation, I'd expect that you'd need two-levels of systems to accomplish this task. The first, larger level would be global positioning system based and would be used to locate the vehicle in the most general sense. If the course is provided in advance, program the system to proceed through a series of waypoints along the route. If the course isn't provided in advance, or if only their waypoints are provided with no information about road conditions, turns, etc., it's much harder.
The second level of navigation would have to be used for local navigation. That is, you'd need a battery of sensors (maybe ground radar) that could detect and map out the surrounding terrain. The onboard computer would then need to extrapolate a route from that data based on where it is and where it needs to go, and then decide a way after accounting for ease to cross certain terrain versus time to cross other terrain.

Anyway, that's where I'd start. It's definitely not an easy undertaking and would require quite a bit of capital. But, if I were given the chance, I'd give it a shot.
__________________
--Madison--

...down at the Ozdust!

Like a grand and miraculous spaceship, our planet has sailed through the universe of time. And for a brief moment, we have been among its many passengers.
Reply With Quote
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-04-2003, 22:42
sanddrag sanddrag is offline
On to my 16th year in FRC
FRC #0696 (Circuit Breakers)
Team Role: Teacher
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Glendale, CA
Posts: 8,519
sanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond repute
In response to Jnadke above, I completely disagree. Sure it is great to be realistic, which you might be, but let us just have a chance. It gets us excited anyhow. There is nothing bad that can come from entering a competition which celebrates science and technology. Have we forgotten the meaning of FIRST? It is not about winning or losing, it is about what you learn in the experience and the good times you have while doing it. So what if the kids' car goes 50 feet? What's it to you? I bet from that project that made the 50 foot run they will learn something much more valuable than the winner would ever have learned. We all have dreams okay. It does no good for you or anyone else to inhibit them. So just let us race to Vegas alright?

And if you insist on talking about the compeition side of things, just look at our robot. We made it to the final match and gave Kingman a run for their money - they even say so. We even won the KISS award from Archer. Our robot was completely student designed and built except for 4 welds and 2 simple CNC parts. And, in Phoenix, we got 3rd seed, semifinalists, and we killed our oponents.

Now, for this DARPA compeition, so what if it takes a pro dune buggy? They are actually quite simple. I'm sure any group of veteran FIRSTers would have no trouble building one. Or what about a truck? Trucks are so simple - especially old ones. All it would take is a little money and a little inginuity. And professional help is not as hard to find as you may think. It is definitely do-able.
__________________
Teacher/Engineer/Machinist - Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2011 - Present
Mentor/Engineer/Machinist, Team 968 RAWC, 2007-2010
Technical Mentor, Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2005-2007
Student Mechanical Leader and Driver, Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2002-2004
Reply With Quote
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-04-2003, 22:47
Cory's Avatar
Cory Cory is offline
Registered User
AKA: Cory McBride
FRC #0254 (The Cheesy Poofs)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: May 2002
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 6,825
Cory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Cory
I think this is going to turn into that thing where you have to construct a passenger vehicle to enter space. people will spend millions of dollars trying to develop the vehicle for the million dollar prize. I do agree that it would be very cool to try given the money to do so.

Cory
__________________
2001-2004: Team 100
2006-Present: Team 254
Reply With Quote
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-04-2003, 23:05
PsiMatt's Avatar
PsiMatt PsiMatt is offline
Supreme Mage of the Light
AKA: Matt Lee
no team (Schmobotics)
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Cerritos, CA
Posts: 58
PsiMatt is on a distinguished road
Send a message via ICQ to PsiMatt Send a message via AIM to PsiMatt Send a message via MSN to PsiMatt Send a message via Yahoo to PsiMatt
Well...

Many times in the past, those experienced in a field have declared that something was impossible, only to have someone without those preconceptions do the impossible. What I'm asking is for a team of FIRSTers to look at this problem from their viewpoints, which may be different and/or contain different preconceptions from the typical industry person. I don't think that should come as much of a surprise, really, but remember that the motto of FIRST is "For Inspiration and Recognition of Science and Technology." Its mission is to inspire others to excellence and innovation, and participating in this project would be in accordance with the ideals of FIRST.

As for funding and such, our individual teams have been able to acquire sponsors for our comparatively small competition, and I see no reason why we cannot have sponsors and professional help on this project. No one ever said that the Grand Challenge would be easy (would it be called the "Grand Challenge" if it were?), but it is a chance to take what we have learned from FIRST and apply it to real life, to affect change in the greater world, and perhaps learn more than could have ever hoped to learn. And if it doesn't work out, we will have learned, and we shall try again, as we in FIRST do time and again. When we face a challenge, the point is not to immediately look at the scale of the challenge and declare that it is impossible to succeed. The point is to try, to learn, to innovate, but not to give up without even an effort, for if we do not attempt a challenge, who will ever know what may have been?
__________________
Founding Member, Team #1135
Supreme Leader, Team #1135
Rookie All-Star 2003

Matt, PsiGuardian of the Light
Lil' Schmoe of WHS Schmobotics

most feared phrase: "MATT...something went wrong...!"
Reply With Quote
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-04-2003, 16:55
matt111 matt111 is offline
Registered User
#1024 (McKenzie Kilabytes)
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: indianapolis, IN
Posts: 171
matt111 will become famous soon enough
if i remember correctly someone alreday posted about this. this contest is pretty big though, i remember reading anbout it in MIT's technology magazine. That is way to complicated for me, but good luck to those who try.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-04-2003, 22:53
Vincent Chan's Avatar
Vincent Chan Vincent Chan is offline
the Friendly Team Asian
#1127 (Lotus Robotics)
Team Role: Student
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Posts: 125
Vincent Chan is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to Vincent Chan
Jnadke, you'll give us a grand if we can make it 10 miles? If you can put your money where your mouth is, I'll tell my team that. (It certainly would help with the cost of building something like this.)

10 miles isn't a very long distance... I've run further than that.

The DARPA Grand Challenge looks like a difficult but fun project to work on. *nod* I mean, you've got to look at it in the same way rookies look at FIRST. You say "Oh God, that looks hard... I think I can... I think I can... I think I-- HEY! It works?!"
__________________
Lotus Robotics, Team #1127

"So everybody's got ideas. Ideas are cheap. What's unique is the conviction to follow through: to work at it until it pays off. That's what separates the person who thinks I wonder why they can't just make shampoo and conditioner in one? from the one who thinks Now, should I get the Mercedes, or another BMW?"
--Scat, in Syrup by Maxx Barry

Last edited by Vincent Chan : 07-04-2003 at 13:54.
Reply With Quote
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-04-2003, 23:41
sanddrag sanddrag is offline
On to my 16th year in FRC
FRC #0696 (Circuit Breakers)
Team Role: Teacher
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Glendale, CA
Posts: 8,519
sanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond repute
Someone was talking about using Skyway wheels for their DARPA project link
__________________
Teacher/Engineer/Machinist - Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2011 - Present
Mentor/Engineer/Machinist, Team 968 RAWC, 2007-2010
Technical Mentor, Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2005-2007
Student Mechanical Leader and Driver, Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2002-2004
Reply With Quote
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-04-2003, 23:49
sanddrag sanddrag is offline
On to my 16th year in FRC
FRC #0696 (Circuit Breakers)
Team Role: Teacher
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Glendale, CA
Posts: 8,519
sanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond repute

Check this out.
The size of the small truck's tires in the pic is 6 in di by 4 in wide to get an idea for size.
And what about this You can get it with a 72 cc engine and it can do 40+ mph.

The hardest part of this project is the obstacle avoidance. The rest is just dirty work.
__________________
Teacher/Engineer/Machinist - Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2011 - Present
Mentor/Engineer/Machinist, Team 968 RAWC, 2007-2010
Technical Mentor, Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2005-2007
Student Mechanical Leader and Driver, Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2002-2004
Reply With Quote
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-04-2003, 00:03
Madison's Avatar
Madison Madison is offline
Dancing through life...
FRC #0488 (Xbot)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1999
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 5,246
Madison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally posted by sanddrag

Check this out.
The size of the small truck's tires in the pic is 6 in di by 4 in wide to get an idea for size.
And what about this You can get it with a 72 cc engine and it can do 40+ mph.

The hardest part of this project is the obstacle avoidance. The rest is just dirty work.
...dirty work including devising a way to get enough fuel on board to make the entire trip.
__________________
--Madison--

...down at the Ozdust!

Like a grand and miraculous spaceship, our planet has sailed through the universe of time. And for a brief moment, we have been among its many passengers.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 22:14.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi