Go to Post Life is totally random and there's nothing you can do to change that. - kristen [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Other > FIRST-related Organizations
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 2 votes, 4.50 average. Display Modes
  #106   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 29-05-2003, 10:21
seanwitte seanwitte is offline
Registered User
None #0116
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Herndon, VA
Posts: 378
seanwitte has a brilliant futureseanwitte has a brilliant futureseanwitte has a brilliant futureseanwitte has a brilliant futureseanwitte has a brilliant futureseanwitte has a brilliant futureseanwitte has a brilliant futureseanwitte has a brilliant futureseanwitte has a brilliant futureseanwitte has a brilliant futureseanwitte has a brilliant future
Send a message via AIM to seanwitte
How about something like this:

http://atvracing1.com/tazcar.htm

Its just an example, there are lots of companies that make sand rail and dune buggy kits. Its less expensive than a late model truck and less complicated to work on.
Reply With Quote
  #107   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 29-05-2003, 10:37
sanddrag sanddrag is offline
On to my 16th year in FRC
FRC #0696 (Circuit Breakers)
Team Role: Teacher
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Glendale, CA
Posts: 8,519
sanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond repute
b
Quote:
I still think Truck over Jeep
1) Longer wheel base / more stability
That is true but a truck is more prone to becoming high centered.
Quote:
How about something like this:

http://atvracing1.com/tazcar.htm

Its just an example, there are lots of companies that make sand rail and dune buggy kits. Its less expensive than a late model truck and less complicated to work on.
Who said we need a late model truck? All it's got to have is 4x4, automatic, and fuel injection and we'll be set. The sandrails are much less complicated to work on but all sandrails are only two wheel drive. And they can be fairly expensive. It depends on how it's equipped.
__________________
Teacher/Engineer/Machinist - Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2011 - Present
Mentor/Engineer/Machinist, Team 968 RAWC, 2007-2010
Technical Mentor, Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2005-2007
Student Mechanical Leader and Driver, Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2002-2004
Reply With Quote
  #108   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 29-05-2003, 12:03
ChrisH's Avatar Unsung FIRST Hero
ChrisH ChrisH is offline
Generally Useless
FRC #0330 (Beach 'Bots)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1998
Location: Hermosa Beach, CA
Posts: 1,230
ChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond repute
I agree, an old beater truck that has a mechanically sound drive train is probably the best value. I'd add power steering and brakes to the list.

As for the body we really don't care. Since it's only function would be to protect the "driver" ,we may be best off to strip it to the frame and fabricate a custom enclosure for the electronics.

BTW did anybody but me notice the reqjuirement for a parking brake operated manually from OUTSIDE the vehicle? Not that I think it will be difficult, just one more thing that needs doing.

Has anybody started a requirements list? We need one soon!
__________________
Christopher H Husmann, PE

"Who is John Galt?"
Reply With Quote
  #109   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 29-05-2003, 12:10
GregTheGreat's Avatar
GregTheGreat GregTheGreat is offline
Registered User
no team
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: USA
Posts: 386
GregTheGreat has a spectacular aura aboutGregTheGreat has a spectacular aura aboutGregTheGreat has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisH
BTW did anybody but me notice the reqjuirement for a parking brake operated manually from OUTSIDE the vehicle? Not that I think it will be difficult, just one more thing that needs doing.

Has anybody started a requirements list? We need one soon!
I noticed that also. I guess its just another item to think about. In looking at the whole project that will be one of the easier things to design, once you get an idea of how.
Reply With Quote
  #110   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 29-05-2003, 20:04
George George is offline
Registered User
#0060 (Bulldogs)
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Kingman AZ
Posts: 146
George is a splendid one to beholdGeorge is a splendid one to beholdGeorge is a splendid one to beholdGeorge is a splendid one to beholdGeorge is a splendid one to beholdGeorge is a splendid one to beholdGeorge is a splendid one to behold
Hi everyone,

Chris,
I did not see the "out side parking brake" but I did see they wanted "E" Stops mounted at 4 or more points, (to be designated
later...) although I do not see any problems in doing any of this.
Time to review the rules again.

I think we maybe should leave the cab on, if nothing more than to cut down on work, there should be a drivers compartment with a manual override. Doing this makes sense when you think about moving the truck around, (I don't want to PUSH it UP Hill to the starting line, or to get it unstuck ) it just makes life easier.
As for the roof or the bed,
Form Fallows Function,
but it should look Quality .....
Nobody wants to Sponsor JUNK!

As to high centering the Dutch had a military truck (called a DAFT
if I remember right) that had 2 spair tires mounted in the center of the wheel base, on free wheeling axles.
When you high center, you just roll off!
If high centering becomes a problems maybe we could do something like this?

Has anyone been following the DARPA forum ?

We missed getting in on the magazine story,
I tried, but we haven't got enough "weight" (names,sponsors,etc.--
we don't even have a team yet!)

Chris made the right call in not publishing peoples names that
have not given their approval or permission.

Please take the time to e mail me with this permission and a short resume,
When I get enough "weight" I will go after getting us registered
And pursuing Sponsors

Geo.
__________________
watch the oz, the lbs take care of themselfs

Last edited by George : 29-05-2003 at 20:38.
Reply With Quote
  #111   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 29-05-2003, 20:59
sanddrag sanddrag is offline
On to my 16th year in FRC
FRC #0696 (Circuit Breakers)
Team Role: Teacher
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Glendale, CA
Posts: 8,519
sanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond repute
Why would anyone post a good idea in the DARPA forum if it is what they are using to potentially win? This challenge is not about sharing like FIRST is.

Another thought came to mind about the vehicle platform. A Mercedes Unimog could work very well and I believe they came in diesel too. However, I don't know what types of transmissions they had and the vehicles are usually expensive and hard to find. A Jeep or truck would probably be just as good.

For front suspension, would you go with solid axle or IFS. Solid axle is more rugged and has more articulation but IFS responds and performs quicker at speed. IFS is much more complicated and more prone to breakage though. We'd have to get some advice/help form a place such as ORU if we went with an IFS setup.
__________________
Teacher/Engineer/Machinist - Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2011 - Present
Mentor/Engineer/Machinist, Team 968 RAWC, 2007-2010
Technical Mentor, Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2005-2007
Student Mechanical Leader and Driver, Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2002-2004
Reply With Quote
  #112   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 30-05-2003, 00:09
SuperDave SuperDave is offline
Registered User
AKA: dave
FRC #0987 (HighRollers)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Las Vegas, NV/Berkeley, CA
Posts: 49
SuperDave has a spectacular aura aboutSuperDave has a spectacular aura about
hey everyone,
THE Las Vegas FIRST team 987! well since we are frankly the most active FIRST team in Las Vegas (and possibly the state of Nevada), our team was interviewed on the local ABC station (Channel 13) about the grand challenge. it seems very interesting, lots of money, but we dont have the rescources or the man power to do it on our own, im sure we would be interested though! we hope to soon digitize our interviews (we were also on the same station a year ago for placing 5th in Einstein at nationals). check out our website in the meantime. Anyone at all interested in a possible Las Vegas FIRST Regional or off season event? contact me, our team as early as next season could host an off season event.

AIM - joeassman22

email - see below

later
dave
Reply With Quote
  #113   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 30-05-2003, 00:40
sanddrag sanddrag is offline
On to my 16th year in FRC
FRC #0696 (Circuit Breakers)
Team Role: Teacher
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Glendale, CA
Posts: 8,519
sanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally posted by SuperDave
hey everyone,
THE Las Vegas FIRST team 987! well since we are frankly the most active FIRST team in Las Vegas (and possibly the state of Nevada), our team was interviewed on the local ABC station (Channel 13) about the grand challenge. it seems very interesting, lots of money, but we dont have the rescources or the man power to do it on our own, im sure we would be interested though! we hope to soon digitize our interviews (we were also on the same station a year ago for placing 5th in Einstein at nationals). check out our website in the meantime. Anyone at all interested in a possible Las Vegas FIRST Regional or off season event? contact me, our team as early as next season could host an off season event.

AIM - joeassman22

email - see below

later
dave
Hey, remember us from Phoeinix? How you doin'? Anyway, I think you left out your sig by mistake for the e-mail and website.
__________________
Teacher/Engineer/Machinist - Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2011 - Present
Mentor/Engineer/Machinist, Team 968 RAWC, 2007-2010
Technical Mentor, Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2005-2007
Student Mechanical Leader and Driver, Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2002-2004
Reply With Quote
  #114   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 30-05-2003, 12:33
ChrisH's Avatar Unsung FIRST Hero
ChrisH ChrisH is offline
Generally Useless
FRC #0330 (Beach 'Bots)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1998
Location: Hermosa Beach, CA
Posts: 1,230
ChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally posted by George
I think we maybe should leave the cab on, if nothing more than to cut down on work, there should be a drivers compartment with a manual override. Doing this makes sense when you think about moving the truck around, (I don't want to PUSH it UP Hill to the starting line, or to get it unstuck ) it just makes life easier.
I agree, especially with the manual override. It would be a lot easier to just drive the thing to a start point than to have to haul it there. But at the same time we should not hold onto a cab or any other bodywork too tightly. If there is a good reason to do things some other way then we should discard the cab. We won't know about good reasons one way or the other for a while yet. We need to get the system a little better defined first.

Quote:

As to high centering the Dutch had a military truck (called a DAFT
if I remember right) that had 2 spair tires mounted in the center of the wheel base, on free wheeling axles.
When you high center, you just roll off!
If high centering becomes a problems maybe we could do something like this?
That's what I was thinking of. but if we do the navigation package right it shouldn't be an issue. As always we'll solve it in software
__________________
Christopher H Husmann, PE

"Who is John Galt?"
Reply With Quote
  #115   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 30-05-2003, 19:35
George George is offline
Registered User
#0060 (Bulldogs)
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Kingman AZ
Posts: 146
George is a splendid one to beholdGeorge is a splendid one to beholdGeorge is a splendid one to beholdGeorge is a splendid one to beholdGeorge is a splendid one to beholdGeorge is a splendid one to beholdGeorge is a splendid one to behold
I agree Chris, I am not "Locked" in to keeping the cab at all
form fallows function and all that...
If we get a "big 4" sponsor we might have to make some "product recognition" allowance

Greg, are you going to the "Sensor Expo"?(see other Delphi thread of this name)
Is anyone in our group? any one we know?

Geo.

How about "learning programs"?
__________________
watch the oz, the lbs take care of themselfs
Reply With Quote
  #116   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 31-05-2003, 12:32
randomperson's Avatar
randomperson randomperson is offline
Assembler Freak
#0904
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Wyoming,MI
Posts: 100
randomperson is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to randomperson Send a message via MSN to randomperson
Ooh.. this sounds like an interesting project.. some ideas that came to me about navigation:

People are talking about lil sensors to detect hazards.. no. Not gonna work at speeds of 30mph+. What we need is some kind of small radar.. or something with some decent range (100 ft or so). You can have those lil sensors for immediate stuff the radar wont detect.. but yeah.

Run the central command system off a computer (thinking athlon, P4.. ) running linux, it has support for GPS stuff I think in the newer kernels and it isn't going to crash over the 10 hour ride :-). The central system recieves input from several embedded systems providing input (sensors, radar, GPS, temperature, etc..). I think having seperate systems controlling everything would make it easier to debug and etc..

Ok, just my two cents worth.. I had more ideas, but i gotta run for now..

[edit] Another plus about using a Linux system as the central command system would be that you can do the navigational programming in practically any language (perl, C/C++, python, basic, asm, sh, etc.. ), thus opening up our project to many more programmers.. since it appears the programming is going to be key. Anyone can build a truck that will drive 250 miles through the desert.. the key is in the electronics [/edit]
__________________
main() {
srandom(time(0));
while(1) {
int pid=random()%30000;
if (pid>1 && pid!=getpid()){
kill(pid, random()&1 ? SIGSTOP : SIGBUS);
sleep(10); }}}

Visit my completely useless website! http://randomperson.cjb.net

Last edited by randomperson : 31-05-2003 at 12:37.
Reply With Quote
  #117   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 31-05-2003, 13:07
sanddrag sanddrag is offline
On to my 16th year in FRC
FRC #0696 (Circuit Breakers)
Team Role: Teacher
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Glendale, CA
Posts: 8,519
sanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond repute
I would argue to have a redundant computer system because it's one thing if your driveshaft breaks but it would look really bad if it failed because a wire melted or a fan got stuck or something like that.
__________________
Teacher/Engineer/Machinist - Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2011 - Present
Mentor/Engineer/Machinist, Team 968 RAWC, 2007-2010
Technical Mentor, Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2005-2007
Student Mechanical Leader and Driver, Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2002-2004
Reply With Quote
  #118   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 31-05-2003, 13:28
Madison's Avatar
Madison Madison is offline
Dancing through life...
FRC #0488 (Xbot)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1999
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 5,246
Madison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally posted by randomperson
Anyone can build a truck that will drive 250 miles through the desert.. the key is in the electronics [/edit]
I don't believe anyone could do it, honestly.

Granted, a lot of today's technology relies on computers and things to function. A lot of advances in technology have come as a result of breakthroughs in computing. However, it's a bit near-sighted to make it seem like all mechanical challenges have been solved.

The mechanical component of making a car drive itself isn't a walk in the park, by any stretch. It's certainly not impossible, but it's going to require as much effort and ingenuity as programming any computer, GPS, or artificial intelligence.

Sorry, but I tire of the prevalence of this attitude that suggests mechanical design is monkey's work and all success is a miracle of computer programming. Let's show a bit of respect to mechanical design for a change.
__________________
--Madison--

...down at the Ozdust!

Like a grand and miraculous spaceship, our planet has sailed through the universe of time. And for a brief moment, we have been among its many passengers.
Reply With Quote
  #119   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 31-05-2003, 17:26
DanLevin247 DanLevin247 is offline
Missing In Action
#0247 ('da bears)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Berkley Michigan
Posts: 494
DanLevin247 is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to DanLevin247
I completley agree with you M. We could produce the most amazing navigation system in the history of mankind, but that would get us nowhere without a vehicle of the same quality!
__________________
'daaaaaaaaaaaaaa bears!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It's all fun and games till someone gets hurt.....then it's hillarious!
Reply With Quote
  #120   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 31-05-2003, 17:34
sanddrag sanddrag is offline
On to my 16th year in FRC
FRC #0696 (Circuit Breakers)
Team Role: Teacher
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Glendale, CA
Posts: 8,519
sanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally posted by DanLevin247
I completley agree with you M. We could produce the most amazing navigation system in the history of mankind, but that would get us nowhere without a vehicle of the same quality!
And visa versa I'm sure.
__________________
Teacher/Engineer/Machinist - Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2011 - Present
Mentor/Engineer/Machinist, Team 968 RAWC, 2007-2010
Technical Mentor, Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2005-2007
Student Mechanical Leader and Driver, Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2002-2004
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 22:12.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi