Go to Post Fame is a funny thing, you can do nothing and get it, and do everything and get none. For me, it's not fame, but infamy that follows me. - Joe Matt [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > FIRST > Robot Showcase
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 21-05-2003, 13:30
CD47-Bot CD47-Bot is offline
Registered User
FRC #0047 (Chief Delphi)
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Pontiac, MI
Posts: 1,616
CD47-Bot has a reputation beyond reputeCD47-Bot has a reputation beyond reputeCD47-Bot has a reputation beyond reputeCD47-Bot has a reputation beyond reputeCD47-Bot has a reputation beyond reputeCD47-Bot has a reputation beyond reputeCD47-Bot has a reputation beyond reputeCD47-Bot has a reputation beyond reputeCD47-Bot has a reputation beyond reputeCD47-Bot has a reputation beyond reputeCD47-Bot has a reputation beyond repute
pic: TechnoKat Transmission 2003

  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 21-05-2003, 13:49
DougHogg DougHogg is offline
Robot-A-Holic
FRC #0980 (The ThunderBots)
Team Role: Coach
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: S. California
Posts: 324
DougHogg has much to be proud ofDougHogg has much to be proud ofDougHogg has much to be proud ofDougHogg has much to be proud ofDougHogg has much to be proud ofDougHogg has much to be proud ofDougHogg has much to be proud ofDougHogg has much to be proud of
I was admiring the above picture of the TechnoKat Transmission 2003.

Can someone explain the light blue inserts in the green and dark-blue gears?

Also I gather that the purple and white pieces are bearings. Is there a reason for them being different colors?

Lastly, I gather that the orange piece connects either the green or dark-blue gear to the red shaft. Is that correct and if so, how does it connect to the red shaft?
__________________
FIRST Team 980, The ThunderBots
2002: S. California Rookie All Stars
2004: S. California: Regional Champion,
Championship Event: Galileo 2nd seed,
IRI: Competition Winner, Cal Games: Competition Winner
2005: Arizona: 1st seed
Silicon Valley: Regional Champion (Thanks Teams 254 and 22)
S. California: Regional Runners Up (Thanks Teams 22 and 968)
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 21-05-2003, 14:11
Unsung FIRST Hero
Bill Gold Bill Gold is offline
Retired -- 2006
no team
 
Join Date: May 2001
Rookie Year: 1999
Location: USA
Posts: 837
Bill Gold has a reputation beyond reputeBill Gold has a reputation beyond reputeBill Gold has a reputation beyond reputeBill Gold has a reputation beyond reputeBill Gold has a reputation beyond reputeBill Gold has a reputation beyond reputeBill Gold has a reputation beyond reputeBill Gold has a reputation beyond reputeBill Gold has a reputation beyond reputeBill Gold has a reputation beyond reputeBill Gold has a reputation beyond repute
The engaging system looks like their 2002 transmission. The engager is on a hex shaft and the gears on bearings or just freely rotating until the engager locks into the side of either gear.
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 21-05-2003, 14:46
Andy Baker's Avatar Woodie Flowers Award
Andy Baker Andy Baker is offline
President, AndyMark, Inc.
FRC #3940 (CyberTooth)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: May 2001
Rookie Year: 1998
Location: Kokomo, Indiana
Posts: 3,425
Andy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Andy Baker
Doug,

Thanks for the interest. Bill has it right, but I will be more specific.

This design idea came from Steve Butler, an engineer on our team who was into racing. I made the detailed design, using his idea, and put it on our 2002 robot. This is a more refined version, put on our 2003 robot. Clark and Kyle Gilbert made this model in Inventor and created this nice "cut away" view.

The aqua colored parts that fit inside the gears (green and blue gears) are 3/8" id flange bearings. The gears freely spin on the red shaft and transfer the torque to the red shaft via the orange "dog" gear.

The purple and white bearings are the same as the aqua bearings (3/8" id flange ball bearings). They were just shown in different colors for clarity purposes, I believe (the Gilberts' idea).

I must say that these gearboxes really performed well for us this year. We had some drivetrain problems, but none were due to this gearbox (other gears and belts outside of this gearbox were more problematic).

My plan is to do an extensive white paper on this improved design and release it by mid-June. Next year, we'll probably use this design again, with more improvements.

Andy B.
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 22-05-2003, 04:49
DougHogg DougHogg is offline
Robot-A-Holic
FRC #0980 (The ThunderBots)
Team Role: Coach
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: S. California
Posts: 324
DougHogg has much to be proud ofDougHogg has much to be proud ofDougHogg has much to be proud ofDougHogg has much to be proud ofDougHogg has much to be proud ofDougHogg has much to be proud ofDougHogg has much to be proud ofDougHogg has much to be proud of
Thanks Bill and Andy for clearing up my confusions. I will also take a look at the white paper from last year.

I know that a number of teams used a version of the 2002 TechnoKat Transmission this year:

226, 368, 968... Anybody else?

Anybody have tips for people new to gear box design/building on making one of these? Any problems you ran into and their solutions?
__________________
FIRST Team 980, The ThunderBots
2002: S. California Rookie All Stars
2004: S. California: Regional Champion,
Championship Event: Galileo 2nd seed,
IRI: Competition Winner, Cal Games: Competition Winner
2005: Arizona: 1st seed
Silicon Valley: Regional Champion (Thanks Teams 254 and 22)
S. California: Regional Runners Up (Thanks Teams 22 and 968)

Last edited by DougHogg : 22-05-2003 at 05:28.
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 22-05-2003, 15:29
Matt Reiland's Avatar
Matt Reiland Matt Reiland is offline
'The' drive behind the drive
None #0226 (TEC CReW Hammerheads)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: May 2001
Rookie Year: 1999
Location: Troy Michigan
Posts: 712
Matt Reiland has a reputation beyond reputeMatt Reiland has a reputation beyond reputeMatt Reiland has a reputation beyond reputeMatt Reiland has a reputation beyond reputeMatt Reiland has a reputation beyond reputeMatt Reiland has a reputation beyond reputeMatt Reiland has a reputation beyond reputeMatt Reiland has a reputation beyond reputeMatt Reiland has a reputation beyond reputeMatt Reiland has a reputation beyond reputeMatt Reiland has a reputation beyond repute
Thumbs up

I love the tranny, it worked perfectly for us this year, it had ample power for whatever we needed it to do. This gearbox would allow our robot to literally wheelie off the line, and almost completely jump the plastic on the ramp. All this with blue supergrip belts!

Tips/Tricks you ask:
1. We switched all gears to standard martin 20 pitch. Low was an 80:20 tooth high was 50:50
2. We made a gear that was 16tooth and welded on a 48 tooth 0.7 onto it and pressed it onto the CIM for the first stage, the ratio worked well matching the CIM to the Drill. The end of the 0.7 mode gear was then turned down to fit in the bearing on the opposite side of the CIM motor. Now, this assembly was too large to be removed from the motor plate after the gear was pressed on, next year I suggest making the CIM motor mount removable keeping the gear intact.
3. MAKE SURE THAT THE CENTER DOG CAN NOT BE IN HIGH AND LOW AT THE SAME TIME. We had one gearbox slightly narrow and the box went from full speed to no speed instantly, ripping the pinion off the drill and severely bending some teeth on the 0.7 mod mating gear.
4. Harden the dogs and dog mate (In fact do like the picture shows and get rid of the dog mates, mill them into the gears) We ended up welding the dog mates onto the gears after shearing off the three screws that held each on.
5. We omitted the carrier for the end of the drill motor, it was only supported on the motor can side.
6. Lighten up all the gears lots, the box is heavy otherwise
7. Air shifting worked fine, we are investigating using RC Servos for next year.
8. Suggest using gear drive out of the gearbox, we were throwing chains at Buckeye until we made automatic chain guides for Buckeye.
9. Suggest that everyone put a 90 degree break on the top and bottom of the gearbox plates for strength, ours are pretty warped after the season (But they still keep kicking)

If I think of more I will post.
__________________
Robonaut Next Generation Control System Development

2003 GLR Champions (302,67,226)
2003 Buckeye Semi-Finalists(902,494,226)
2002 Nationals QuarterFinalists
2001 West MI QuarterFinalists
2000 GLR Semi-Finalists
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 19-06-2003, 17:01
dddriveman's Avatar
dddriveman dddriveman is offline
Former Driver 1038, 979
AKA: Driveman
FRC #1038 (Thunderhawks)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Dayton
Posts: 142
dddriveman has a spectacular aura aboutdddriveman has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via AIM to dddriveman
Can anybody say "Built by engineers". This kinda stuff realy makes me angry. When your engineers build your componets for your robot it is a disgrace to what FIRST is about. THe point of First is to see what the students can create not what their engineers can create, then school them on. Just in case asked a question about it by a judge or inspector. I can't even count how many teams I have seen at regionals where you could have watched them work all day long in the pit on their robot and the never once saw a student touch the thing. Some stuff needs to be changed. It's just not fair to other teams. Us one of them, we don't have any big fancy engineers helping us or building our robot. DO you know how many engineers we have? How about this number. ZERO. All those teams out there were your engineers do the work and not you, should feel real bad about yourselves,and any awards you have won. 'cause you didn't build your robot your engineers did. You know what the great thing about our team is it. We built our own robot, and at the end of the match we can hold our heads up high regarless of the score because, WE built our OWN robot.
__________________
"I'm sorry, after all he is just a wookie!"
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 19-06-2003, 17:16
Madison's Avatar
Madison Madison is offline
Dancing through life...
FRC #0488 (Xbot)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1999
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 5,246
Madison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally posted by dddriveman
Can anybody say "Built by engineers". This kinda stuff realy makes me angry. When your engineers build your componets for your robot it is a disgrace to what FIRST is about.
Okay, you're new here, so I think we can manage to cut you a few inches of slack.

We have discussed this again and again and again .

The TechnoKats have proven themselves to be one of the best teams in FIRST, not only because of their consistently well-designed and -performing robots, but because of their outstanding team members and the immense help they provide to our community.

While it may appear to you that this transmission was designed entirely by engineers, please keep in mind that they shared it with everyone -- including teams like yours that don't yet have the benefit of engineers to guide them.

Furthermore, I and several others are working toward bringing engineering resources to your team and teams like it through a new initiative. We're all trying to help one another here, so let's hasten the righteousness a bit, okay?

Okay.
__________________
--Madison--

...down at the Ozdust!

Like a grand and miraculous spaceship, our planet has sailed through the universe of time. And for a brief moment, we have been among its many passengers.
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 19-06-2003, 17:30
Rob Colatutto's Avatar
Rob Colatutto Rob Colatutto is offline
Roboticsrob
FTC #10092 (Green.Griffins;)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 849
Rob Colatutto is a splendid one to beholdRob Colatutto is a splendid one to beholdRob Colatutto is a splendid one to beholdRob Colatutto is a splendid one to beholdRob Colatutto is a splendid one to beholdRob Colatutto is a splendid one to beholdRob Colatutto is a splendid one to behold
Hmm... For starters M is right about the TechnoKats being one of the best teams around and a number of thier transmissions are up in the white papers with detailed drawings so anyone who wanted to make one could. If you go and ask anyone on team 45 how thier tranny works, they'll be able to tell you what you wanted to know and then some more. Its not like and engineer is sitting over there designing amazing parts for thier robot without getting students involved and making sure everyone understands whats they are making. If you just listen and look around at some old posts you can learn a lot from this team, and from the engineers involved with FIRST.
__________________
Follow me on twitter @roboticsrob and my FTC team @griffins10092
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 19-06-2003, 17:36
Andy Baker's Avatar Woodie Flowers Award
Andy Baker Andy Baker is offline
President, AndyMark, Inc.
FRC #3940 (CyberTooth)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: May 2001
Rookie Year: 1998
Location: Kokomo, Indiana
Posts: 3,425
Andy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Andy Baker
Quote:
Originally posted by dddriveman
Some stuff needs to be changed. It's just not fair to other teams. Us one of them, we don't have any big fancy engineers helping us or building our robot. DO you know how many engineers we have? How about this number. ZERO. All those teams out there were your engineers do the work and not you, should feel real bad about yourselves,and any awards you have won.
(I was going to go easy on this issue, but the above author has been reading this website since the first part of this year, so...)

Sometimes I think a while before posting, sometimes I go with my gut and shoot from the hip. This time, I'm going with my gut. Enjoy. It doesn't happen very often.

dddriveman is right... some stuff needs to be changed. However, I disagree with the assesment above. Attitudes need to change. The attitude that promotes attacking other teams and people needs to go away right now. This attitude is being shown by dddriveman above and by others on these valuable forums. This sort of attitude is driving good people (students and adults) away from these forums and I am simply not going to stand back and let it happen.

dddriveman, it is unfortuneate that FIRST means something different to you than it does to almost everyone else out here in FIRST world. I suggest that you look into another robot competition if all you care about is promoting yourself and knocking down others. I cannot let this sort of crap go on.

As for engineer/student involvement and this thread involving the TechnoKat gearbox... you have no clue. You cannot sit there and tell me that 12 years of doing FIRST, working with hundreds of kids is something I "should feel real bad about". Ask Jadon Smith, a former TechnoKat student who had no where to fit into Kokomo High School 8 years ago, but recently graduated from MIT and works for a place that he cannot tell me about. Ask Phil Lundberg if I should feel bad about helping him become a leader on team 45, inventing CVTs and designing transmissions for Saturn VUEs at the age or 19. Ask me about Chris O'Neill... who quit team 45 as a Junior because things got kinda tough, but now he is an engineering student at Purdue. (this is only the beginning, I can go on and on and on with examples of student success stories)

Go ahead and set up a poll on this website, asking other students who are drivers and student team leaders and ask them if I should be ashamed of myself. I dare you. My guess is that your attitude will back down.

As you can tell, I feel strongly about this issue. FIRST is about Inspiration, simply put. It is great to see students do things without engineering assistance, but FIRST is not about seeing what students can do on their own. Go enter a science fair if you want to show what you can do... but if you think that you can drive us engineers away from FIRST by berating us and telling us that we should be ashamed of our actions, you must be joking.

So, yes... things need to change. Attitudes need to change. I know that I am being harsh with this note, but it is about time that someone stepped up.

Andy B.

/edit - M. & Rob... I appreciate both of your comments... they mean alot to me. Heck, Rob and I have even debated this issue before, but he was tactful and respectful while having a different opinion. Having a different opinion is OK with me... attacking me ticks me off. And you wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

Last edited by Andy Baker : 19-06-2003 at 17:40.
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 19-06-2003, 18:01
Amanda Morrison's Avatar Unsung FIRST Hero
Amanda Morrison Amanda Morrison is offline
16 awesome years of FRC!
no team
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,864
Amanda Morrison has a reputation beyond reputeAmanda Morrison has a reputation beyond reputeAmanda Morrison has a reputation beyond reputeAmanda Morrison has a reputation beyond reputeAmanda Morrison has a reputation beyond reputeAmanda Morrison has a reputation beyond reputeAmanda Morrison has a reputation beyond reputeAmanda Morrison has a reputation beyond reputeAmanda Morrison has a reputation beyond reputeAmanda Morrison has a reputation beyond reputeAmanda Morrison has a reputation beyond repute
Team 45 is one of the best teams I have ever competed with, hands down. They are gracious to other teams, they compete in a professional manner, and most of all, their kids really LEARN. Their students are excited about the program and the changes that they can make in FIRST. They are informed, intelligent, and some of the friendliest kids I've ever met. Their mentors are dedicated people who work constantly to improve FIRST and their own community. Indiana is a better state for having such a great team.

My small team needed some help after we had built 4 drive trains and had just about given up hope. Mentors from Team 45 came over and gave my kids a couple ideas as to how to get our machine up and running again, but let the kids learn and experience just how to make it work. I have utmost respect for their team and the way they operate.

I'm sorry that you have the feelings that you do. I hope that you get to experience the TechnoKats in competition and bear witness to their friendly demeanor sometime soon.
__________________
Director of Operations, VEX Robotics, Inc.
Alumna - Teams 71, 1020, 1720, 148
2002 World Champions (Team 71) | 2008 World Champions (Team 148)
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 19-06-2003, 19:13
Ken Leung's Avatar Unsung FIRST Hero
Ken Leung Ken Leung is offline
Dare to Live!
FRC #0115 (Monta Vista Robotics Team)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: May 2001
Rookie Year: 1999
Location: Palo Alto, California
Posts: 2,390
Ken Leung has a reputation beyond reputeKen Leung has a reputation beyond reputeKen Leung has a reputation beyond reputeKen Leung has a reputation beyond reputeKen Leung has a reputation beyond reputeKen Leung has a reputation beyond reputeKen Leung has a reputation beyond reputeKen Leung has a reputation beyond reputeKen Leung has a reputation beyond reputeKen Leung has a reputation beyond reputeKen Leung has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Ken Leung
I've made a post for a topic exactly like this, so... I am just going to copy and paste.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I totally understand those of you who feel frustrated watching those cool looking robots win the competition... I once was on a team who mostly used bandsaw and drill press to build a robot out of students' hands. And I felt really jealous when other teams have gear boxes while we could barely host clamp the drill motors on a piece of ply wood.

But I grew out of those feelings as years past because, as years pasted, my team (as well as others) did great at competition even without great engineering support, or fancy machining... As a team, we were able to build better robots just by more and more experience, harder effort in fund raising, and getting help from different people.

I grew out of those feelings as I see other teams won competitions without great engineering. Team 254 cheesy poofs is a classic example, as well as my old team 192, and many other teams. Great gear boxes and complicated machines were only few of the many factors that decide how your robot will do in a competition. There are also scouting, strategizing, and communication between driver and coaches, or between you and your alliance partner.


What is the unfairness between teams anyway? Well, we were all given the same kit of parts, the same battery, and the same rules. Everyone have the same weight and material limit, as well as how much motors/pneumatics we can use. The differences between the teams are their experiences and resources...

With more experience, a team can build a much better robot... Can you really call that unfair? With more resources teams found, they can build a better robot... But who's stopping you from going out to find more resources? Can we really say it's unfair because our area happens to have less resource for us to use?


A lot of well-supported teams are really cool teams if you get to know them. They've always done great at regionals, and their robots were always really effective and simple. Their team is high spirited, and was great help to teams around them. So, I really do believe they are all great teams to learn a lot from. Take your time and get to know their whole team. That's what competition is for.

Mean while, I challenge you all to build your team to as good as theirs. Go out and get engineers interested in this program. Go out and get more sponsors to help out.

Also, I've seen a lot of their robots, and most of you could build robots just like theirs without great machining (although yours won't look as good). They have a lot of simple original ideas what work quite well at the competition, and it's not hard to build.

Don't feel so frustrated... You have plenty of chances to improve yourself, and make your robot better. You can be competitive in a competition if you keep building a robot that you are proud of.

Mean while, keep sharing your ideas and take advantage of this forum. A lot of other people and I are willing to share what we learned, so don't be afraid to ask.

-------------------------------------------------------

A little I want to add. Having NO engineer support is NOT an excuse for you to and say "oh such and such teams have 10 engineers building the robot for them. I am not even going to try anymore." It is YOUR JOB to get more engineers involved in your team, so you can work TOGETHER with those engineers, and learn from them. It doesn't mean you tell the engineers to build the robot for you. It means you ask for help and guidance and support when you need them, and make use of their knownledge as much as possible.

When you face a difficult challenge, you don't look at the answer. You ask for help, and try to learn enough to solve the problem

There are plenty of people around here who are willing to offer their advices. So make use of this forum, and learn as much as you can so you can build those good looking robots too.
__________________
Hardware Test Engineer supporting RE<C, Google.

1999-2001: Team 192 Gunn Robotics Team
2001-2002: Team 100, 192, 258, 419
2002-2004: Western Region Robotics Forum, Score Keeper @ Sac, Az, SVR, SC, CE, IRI, CalGames
2003-2004, 2006-2007: California Robot Games Manager
2008: MC in training @ Sac, CalGames
2009: Master of Ceremony @ Sac, CalGames
2010: GA in training @ SVR, Sac.
2010-2011: Mechanical Mentor, Team 115 MVRT
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 19-06-2003, 19:21
dddriveman's Avatar
dddriveman dddriveman is offline
Former Driver 1038, 979
AKA: Driveman
FRC #1038 (Thunderhawks)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Dayton
Posts: 142
dddriveman has a spectacular aura aboutdddriveman has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via AIM to dddriveman
I'm sorry about my last statement. I did not mean to attack or single out in any way, shape, or form the Technokats. I was trying to get the point across that some stuff needs to be changed. Again I am not singling out team 45 or any other FIRST robotics team. I also did not mean to come across that strong and I hope that my actions have not impared anyone elses judgement of team 979. I am sorry once again. I also know that the Technokats are a wonderfull team and experienced, as from experience at last years Buckeye Regional.
__________________
"I'm sorry, after all he is just a wookie!"
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 19-06-2003, 19:48
Gadget470's Avatar
Gadget470 Gadget470 is offline
A Fire Outside
AKA: Brandon Joerges
no team (Alpha Omega)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Madison Heights, MI
Posts: 1,000
Gadget470 is a jewel in the roughGadget470 is a jewel in the roughGadget470 is a jewel in the roughGadget470 is a jewel in the rough
Send a message via ICQ to Gadget470 Send a message via AIM to Gadget470
Since it seems you've spotted your own err, i'll go easy

The technokats are a very inspirational team. They inspire their engineers, their students, and other teams. Many teams have had a good season because of the Technokat's generosity.

For example, team 909 (i think) was able to compete at a regional with a robot that was prototyped, designed, constructed, and loaned by the Technokats. Now, I say the team name because it wasn't just their engineers. It wasn't just their students. It was their team. Their students working directly with their engineers.

I, for one, am against "Engineer Built" robots. My reasons are posted in other threads. It's a much different story with "Engineer Assisted" robots, and I even envy the "Student Built" robots.

I was on a team in my home town for 3 years. I joined as a freshman, loved the program, even though the robot sucked and it was mostly engineer designed and built. Second year? About a week after we got the game, we went to the sponsor's building, and were shown cad drawings of what was going to be built. Again, engineer designed, performed.. better. But, at this point I was exposed to two things: 1) The awesome power of CAD, 2) How engineers think. Onto my 3rd year, again, mostly engineer designed.. but me and my dad saw a major flaw in a major part of the robot. After a redesign, we ended having our best year yet.

This year I was on a different team, one that is 40 miles away from where I live, (that's about an 45 min to an hour by car). I made the drive almost every day. The robot is mostly student built (more than 85% designed and built by students), but also had engineers who wanted to "Make you guys the best $@#$@#$@#$@# engineers you can be."

We were taught through the season engineering practices, and building methods. If something wasn't working right, an engineer would take a look at it, and modify it's design. This was my best season ever.

Now here's the reason you read all of that (assuming you did)...

I would have ZERO drive to join team 470 if it weren't for team 247. The engineer built robots made me want to be the builder. I got my chance every day, after driving through the lovely Michigan winter weather.

Now I've graduated high school, while most kids take that first Monday after school's out and sleep until noon then go out and party. I started my job. Where do I work? Comau Pico Powertrain Systems, in the engineering department. (Oddly enough, Comau Pico is one of 247's sponsors ).

So honestly, if the team is inspired, then so be it. An engineer built robot doesn't always perform better than the student built ones. Inspire your students, then build a robot as you all see fit.

Technokats have done this tremendously. The way they build is to let everyone be inspired once their students are.
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 19-06-2003, 22:50
Andy Baker's Avatar Woodie Flowers Award
Andy Baker Andy Baker is offline
President, AndyMark, Inc.
FRC #3940 (CyberTooth)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: May 2001
Rookie Year: 1998
Location: Kokomo, Indiana
Posts: 3,425
Andy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Andy Baker
Accepted

Quote:
Originally posted by dddriveman
I'm sorry about my last statement. I did not mean to attack or single out in any way, shape, or form the Technokats. I was trying to get the point across that some stuff needs to be changed. Again I am not singling out team 45 or any other FIRST robotics team. I also did not mean to come across that strong and I hope that my actions have not impared anyone elses judgement of team 979. I am sorry once again. I also know that the Technokats are a wonderfull team and experienced, as from experience at last years Buckeye Regional.
driveman,

Apology accepted. Actually, I understand your frustration and see it often in FIRST. I am frequently frustrated when I see engineers/adults only working on a robot and students standing around watching. This happens in my team's pit sometimes, and I try very hard to make it not so.

Some of my most enjoyable times in FIRST have been when team 45 students "kick out" the adults from the pits... that makes me very happy and does not happen enough.

The way I see things is this: there is a fine line between student involvement and engineer involvement. Students and engineers should work side by side, actually inspiring each other. I can attest that many students on team 45 and on these forums have inspired me. This inspiration happens both ways.

Please keep your eyes open and try to understand that there are vast benefits to working with excellent engineers like Raul Olivera (111), Paul Copioli (217), Mark Jones (343) and Glenn Thuroughmann (60), just to name a few. There are a slew more, believe me. Take a chance and get to know these guys, and the other dedicated engineers in FIRST. Not only will you learn from their wisdom and experience, but you may also find a friend.

Other smart FIRST students have also had the same opinion you have... now, they may have shown it with more tact, but you may want to talk to them also. Please take the time and talk to other students in your position and learn from their experience.

No harm done.

Andy B.
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
pic: IRI 2003 Belly Check CD47-Bot Extra Discussion 17 24-07-2003 16:49
pic: 2003 IRI - DJ crowning CD47-Bot Extra Discussion 33 23-07-2003 22:48
pic: TechnoKat High School Wall CD47-Bot Extra Discussion 22 22-05-2003 16:47
pic: 2003 TechnoKat Ball Drive : Patent Pending CD47-Bot Robot Showcase 78 30-03-2003 16:27
Image Discuss: TechnoKat Robot 2003 - 2 CD47-Bot Robot Showcase 6 27-02-2003 14:44


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:19.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi