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  #31   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 22-07-2003, 20:24
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hmmmm. interesting posts... indeed. I was hoping a discussion like this would come up eventually so I could share my views.

As a robotics team in the midwest division I have found many things. One, our team is very lucky. We have 4 teams within about 10 miles of each other (74, 85, 107, 141). And we have always been somewhat close. I believe that no matter where the region is, every team is close because we have the same common goal : If we win, great, but it's more about enjoying everything that you do, and having the time of your life.

There is however one major difference in the Midwest that nobody has pointed out, maybe out forgetfullness or politeness. If anyone had a chance to watch the Great Lakes Regional, or the Chicago one, you'll notice one thing. Every robot there is built like a powerhouse. There are no flimsy mechanisms or unguarded areas of the robot. We learned eraly one in my freshman year, these regionals are war. If you don't believe me, look at the way that robots are outfitted. This robots are all made to withstand the MOST extreme circumstances. Teams from the midwest know that there will be a tremendous amounted of pushing and shoving and that nobody is safe. There is a reason that Midwest regionals are statistically the hardest, because basically any team can win. It's fair to say that at any midwest regional, any part of your robot can be broken off. I know that Wildstang's wings took a terrible beating at Great Lakes and that Beatty was FLIPPED at Chicago.

Now don;t get me wrong there are a large abundance of strong teams form around the country. And many of them are incredibly sound teams that have the capability to beat any Midwest team (I know, we got beat by 3 non-midwest teams in the Galileo semifinals). There is just a very strong concentration of tough teams in the Midwest area. So do not take this as a threatening post meant to start a thread war, it's only an opinion for you to consider.

Thanks
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Unread 22-07-2003, 20:35
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I just want to say, that while the Midwest teams might be the "toughest"... they should all come up to NH or Conn next year.

The New England teams will... open your eyes.

That's right... I'm challenging all your midwesterners to come up north and play!
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Unread 22-07-2003, 20:37
Steve W Steve W is offline
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As one from the north, a place called Canada, I wonder about what I am residing. Just new to FIRST (2 years), I havn't seen any differences in the meets I have been to. Last year I attended Cleveland and the Canadian regional. This year I was at Pittsburgh, Canadian, West Michigan and Championships. Every event I attended I saw co-operation, friendships and competition. No event looked any different to me. I made a point of visiting every team at the regionals and every team in the Currie division at Championship. Everyone was very friendly to me and always willing to talk about how their robots worked. Maybe I need to experience a little more but maybe it is personalities that we are judging not areas. Our team is looking at skipping championship next year to visit a West Coast regional. Maybe that would change my mind, I hope not. I notice a lot of posts here by Team 25. I believe that you are a East Coast team. If so then you don't seem to fill the East Coast criteria. I really enjoyed your team at Championships (I wear your shirt everywhere). Keep up the good work you are doing.
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Unread 22-07-2003, 20:42
WernerNYK WernerNYK is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by JVN
I just want to say, that while the Midwest teams might be the "toughest"... they should all come up to NH or Conn next year.

The New England teams will... open your eyes.

That's right... I'm challenging all your midwesterners to come up north and play!
/me agrees. Either of the New England regionals, or even any of the off-season comps -- BattleCry in particular (yea, I'm tootin my own horn there, but those who have been to BC must admit that it's good )
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Unread 22-07-2003, 20:43
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Re: Re: East Coast, West Coast, and Midwest FIRST

Quote:
Originally posted by Wayne C.
[To be honest, recently at IRI, I too noticed a difference in the "FIRST culture" comparing home (East) and the Midwest. I was rather uncomfortable about some of the experiences I had. It definitely changed MY view of FIRST for the future. And some of MY observations are diametrically opposite yours. Come out to our regional next March and maybe we can change your mind.

WC [/b]
Can you elaborate on how the IRI changed your view of FIRST?
I am interested....

Last edited by Chris Fultz : 22-07-2003 at 20:55.
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Unread 22-07-2003, 20:47
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Quote:
Originally posted by WernerNYK
/me agrees. Either of the New England regionals, or even any of the off-season comps -- BattleCry in particular (yea, I'm tootin my own horn there, but those who have been to BC must admit that it's good )
Of course...
Battlecry always draws the best from the Northeast!
You guys should expand to accomodate more teams for 2004...
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Unread 22-07-2003, 21:26
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This is an interesting thread... I hadn't really noticed all that much difference between geographical areas. There are a lot of strong robots at Great Lakes and Midwest Regionals because they have been around a long time. Many of the teams are veterans and we have learned from each other. Remember we were on the frontier for a few years before the western and southern states started getting teams. During my first few years, the furthest west team was Baxter Bomb Squad (Mountain Home, Arkansas). In my mind we have been friends with anyone we see on a regular basis. (That should be obvious.) In years past, members of our team dated members of teams from Indiana, Michigan and even Arkansas. If you want to get to know someone in this group, you only have to hang out in their pit for a while, ask questions, talk strategy, etc. The greatest impetus for this "family" movement has been the alliance concept. Of course the belief you can ask for help, parts, even drivers from any team has helped a great deal as well.
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Unread 22-07-2003, 23:58
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Well, I'm too lazy to read all the replies, but judging from the original post:
Yeah, you're probably right. But there's a reason. It's the same reason why small town folk generally seem more friendly than big city people. The west and midwest teams are more few and far between than the eastern ones, so they have no reason to compete that much. The eastern teams don't have any reason to keep close together, so they compete more.

On a closely related topic, but I didn't really want to start a new thread:
I think there are three types of teams. Of course, it may only be us easterners, but still, nonetheless.

1. Teams who do the obvious thing (this year being going up the ramp in auto, for example). These teams usually never "break through", and after years of work, never have the chance to shine.

2. Teams who do something different (stack slapper, etc). It depends, but on average, these teams are fairly well known (84, 88, etc.). In competition, they do better than the 1s, but not quite as well as...

3. Teams who do the obvious thing (see #1) and are good at it. They usually go very far, and win competitions. Examples: 25, 365, and 222's gettin' up there.

Any comments? I'm sure not every team fits exactly into one of them, but it's at least a basic outline.
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Unread 23-07-2003, 01:05
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Quote:
Originally posted by SaxMan701
Well, I'm too lazy to read all the replies, but judging from the original post:
No offense, but don't post then. At least skim.

And the obvious thing? Take a closer look at our bot and tell us that it is such an obvious concept that the first week was a breeze when it came to planning.

Oh, and we stacked too. So not like boxkilling is the only thing we did.
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Unread 23-07-2003, 01:21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Steve W
I notice a lot of posts here by Team 25. I believe that you are a East Coast team. If so then you don't seem to fill the East Coast criteria. I really enjoyed your team at Championships (I wear your shirt everywhere). Keep up the good work you are doing.
Steve, Thank you but i can tell you there are many other teams that are like us, if not MORE friendlier in the East Coast, Teams like 175, 303, 365, 11, 222,341,229,190,316 just to name a few. We are all willing to help each other anyway possible, but at the same time make an attempt to win which is what we all do, I know i am in this program to have fun, and learn about robots, not really winning, but i know that when ANYONE competes, they have a little part of them that wants to win, its called human nature. while i am intruged by the disscussion taking place in the thread, i think that everyone should just take a step back and look at the whole picture, FIRST is a family, not an organization full of regions, we all try to help each other, not cause it benifits us, but because its graciously proffesional
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Unread 23-07-2003, 08:36
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As far as an Upstate NY regional goes, all I can say is that we're working on it.

Matt
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Unread 23-07-2003, 09:47
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hey- I think we did pretty good?
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Re: Re: Re: East Coast, West Coast, and Midwest FIRST

Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Fultz
Can you elaborate on how the IRI changed your view of FIRST?
I am interested....
Since you asked-

1. IRI was staged on par with a regional and yet the cost was only $300 per team. I work with the local regional committee and we are talking thousands per team. I know IRI got some sponsorship funding. But the question in my mind is, where are we spending all that money for the regional and how can we be more efficient?

2. Not to offend or stir up a tempest but the local crowd at IRI was essentially cold to us. What stands out in my mind is sitting most of the day with one team we respected for years. We cheered and clapped when their machine went out and talked to the folks as we sat. When OUR machine went out the same people rooted for the other guy.
Now I know everybody has favorites but it made me feel unwelcome.

3. On the other hand a number of teams we knew from past paths crossing did reunite with us and we did have some fun. One circumstance I recall is two kids from the Huskies visited our pits and said hi. Made my day. When you spend two days in transit to attend an event it is nice to know somebody is happy to see you there.

So in essence the situation seemed to be- if they knew you somebody clapped for you and supported you, if they don't you were a threat. We went out to play the Nat. finals winners one more time and have fun- thats it. It seemed a bit too serious about winning for my taste.

So in the end the question is" would I drive 12 hrs. again to go to an event in the Midwest?". Right now the answer is probably no.

WC
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Last edited by Wayne C. : 23-07-2003 at 10:01.
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Unread 23-07-2003, 10:40
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Re: Re: Re: Re: East Coast, West Coast, and Midwest FIRST

Quote:
Originally posted by Wayne C.
So in essence the situation seemed to be- if they knew you somebody clapped for you and supported you, if they don't you were a threat. We went out to play the Nat. finals winners one more time and have fun- thats it. It seemed a bit too serious about winning for my taste.
I think that all goes back to the tendency of Midwest teams to associate with each other. You tend to support the teams you're familiar with, and while those of us on the forums know 25 well, to the average Midwest FIRST student, you're somewhat of an unknown quantity. They may have seen you in the finals in Houston, but they don't really know you. I think that would happen to anyone outside their "home area" so to speak. I guess we all need to do a better job of welcoming outsiders. I for one was glad 25 came. It made IRI a lot more exciting.
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Unread 23-07-2003, 11:39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Matt Leese
As far as an Upstate NY regional goes, all I can say is that we're working on it.

Matt
The Blue Cross Arena would be perfect.

As for the generalized regions, I never cared for such things because that's painting teams in those areas with a wide brush. When I look at the comparisons of the areas teams come from I'd say the X-Cats are more Western in nature than Eastern.
We are more about inspiring our kids and spreading the word of FIRST and gracious professionalism than winning awards left and right (because if winning awards was all we were about we'd go to more than just one regional and the championships).
Each team is not a reflection of the region they are in, or even the amount of money they have really but their leadership up top. They set the tone of how a team goes about it's business. Now, perhaps in a given area, teams act in a similar fashion but there are probably teams that act otherwise as well. So these things are quite accurate.
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Unread 23-07-2003, 11:49
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Re: Re: Re: Re: East Coast, West Coast, and Midwest FIRST

Quote:
Originally posted by Wayne C.
Since you asked-

1. IRI was staged on par with a regional and yet the cost was only $300 per team. I work with the local regional committee and we are talking thousands per team. I know IRI got some sponsorship funding. But the question in my mind is, where are we spending all that money for the regional and how can we be more efficient?

So in essence the situation seemed to be- if they knew you somebody clapped for you and supported you, if they don't you were a threat. We went out to play the Nat. finals winners one more time and have fun- thats it. It seemed a bit too serious about winning for my taste.

So in the end the question is" would I drive 12 hrs. again to go to an event in the Midwest?". Right now the answer is probably no.

WC
The major money difference is probably in the venue. IRI was a regional size competition with respect to the number of teams attending, but you won't see a regional held at a local high school anytime soon. FIRST pays big bucks to use the venues they use, and we help them out with our fees.

And I would agree with the second statement, because thats how it is in almost any major competitive event in this country. For example, you goto a baseball game to root for your hometown team (i.e the Brewers ), you don't care who the people are on the other team, they are just the other team that has to lose.

I know FIRST is different than this, we are supposed to be family and all one together. But if one of your team's friends (someone you know very well) is going up against someone you have no clue about, the chances are you'll go for the team you know, Its just the way it is.

The Midwest is competitive, its our nature, we play to win or don't play at all, but if we lose we take it graciously.
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