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Unread 29-04-2004, 13:08
Steve Shade Steve Shade is offline
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Re: On Game Design

To expand in another direction from Ken, from my vantage point I saw the rookies this year do much better overall than in the previous few years (not to offend any rookies that did well in the past). By making the big points scoreable with mechanisms, nearly all of the rookie and 2nd year teams that created a "box on wheels" robot a year ago or the teams that have never built a robot before, attempted and in many cases succeeded at getting their mechanism(s) to work. Heck, there was a rookie in the runner-up alliance in Atlanta. The teams this year stepped up to the challenges placed in front of them, much the way the young teams did back in the late 90's when ChiefDelphi boards were in it's infancy, and design sharing was just getting started. Since life isn't fair and neither is FIRST, I believe the game this year sufficiently challenged the veterans and the young teams alike, and is one of my favorites along with '99. The only way for the young teams to be able to strive towards the harder tasks is to start experimenting early, and continue to innovate new ways to solve the same technical problems. Many of the challenges this year were solved with very simple mechanisms and that is one of the key lessons for any team to learn.

Keep the challenges coming, as long as the game points fit into a reasonable scheme.

Steve
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Unread 29-04-2004, 13:37
ngreen ngreen is offline
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Re: On Game Design

I don't see the game as too complex.

This comes from being with a team that is in its second year and could complete all task each of the last two years. This has let us be in the division finals each of the last two years. Fairly good for how untechnically advanced our robots have been. We've used sprocket and chain drive and have not done a lot in the off season.

Hopefully we might consider doing more this summer because a new drive system would be nice, but a very simplistic one has worked great. Our biggest asset is that we try to live by KISS. The only machined parts our the hub for our tires. Our most complex part we've purchased is taking the impeller from a shop vac. With strategy and a fairly robust design you can do well. You may not be able to do all the task well (we only made stacks twice last year, and barely herded any ball this year), but you can compete.

I like the rules how they are now. It's not going to be completely fair but it won't stop people from competing. And if you are only in it to compete and win you've got to realize you can't always but just take advantage of the learning experience.

As to FIRST becoming a year-round program. It is. So much needs to be done before that 6 weeks unless you are just crazy. You can do it in six weeks and be successful but I wouldn't reccomend it. Get fundraising, and paperwork done early. Our team spends a lot of time in the community during the off season.

FIRST is definitely like a sport. I played three sports in high school. I concentrated on basketball during basketball season but that doesn't stop me from shooting around during the rest of the year. Some just take it farther and play tournaments and spend a lot of time praticing their skills. You can be competitive just playing during the season, but those that put in the time all year will have an advantage.

I don't think changing the game to two intemediate task or letting people spend less is going to change anything. IMHO.
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Unread 29-04-2004, 13:40
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Re: On Game Design

The complexity of the games doesn't hurt the rookies at all. Even though it does seem that the games are more complex, it also seems that the easier component of the game can beat out the harder one. For this year's game as an example - hearding balls and capping could easily beat out hanging robots. Hearding isn't that hard and capping takes a little more work but isn't as hard as hanging. I did see a lot of rookies do well using these methods. As for last year's game - though stacking was hard to do, it was almost irrelevent. I still remember the match in Chicago when 16 was making a stack. I think they spent a good 30 seconds on that. The second that top box was put on, there was a robot charging at it to knock it down. While rookies didn't have the good drivetrains that were necessary last year, they were still able to give the veterans a run for their money. I don't see the design of the games inhibiting the new teams ability to compete. I think every rookie has a good shot at winning as long as they can do one thing and do it well.
Eric
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