Go to Post We owe a lot to Bob (Hammond), he is a true gentleman. - Covey41 [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Technical > Technical Discussion
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-04-2002, 08:01
JamesJones JamesJones is offline
Registered User
#0180 (SPAM)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Stuart, Fl
Posts: 44
JamesJones is an unknown quantity at this point
Beatty tracks

I've got to ask. I haven't seen the robot, but to those who have, what are Beatty's shuffle tracks made out of? Is it the file cleaning brushes in SPI?

James
Engineer/Coach
Team 180 SPAM
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-04-2002, 08:41
Ricky Q.'s Avatar Unsung FIRST Hero
Ricky Q. Ricky Q. is offline
yee haw!
FRC #0148 (Robowranglers)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,651
Ricky Q. has a reputation beyond reputeRicky Q. has a reputation beyond reputeRicky Q. has a reputation beyond reputeRicky Q. has a reputation beyond reputeRicky Q. has a reputation beyond reputeRicky Q. has a reputation beyond reputeRicky Q. has a reputation beyond reputeRicky Q. has a reputation beyond reputeRicky Q. has a reputation beyond reputeRicky Q. has a reputation beyond reputeRicky Q. has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Ricky Q.
I think so

Yes I believe they have the flie cleaning brushes on the bottom of their walking feet.
__________________
Ricky Quinones
Director of Sales - VEX Robotics
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-04-2002, 08:46
JamesJones JamesJones is offline
Registered User
#0180 (SPAM)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Stuart, Fl
Posts: 44
JamesJones is an unknown quantity at this point
how about orientation

Are they only oriented for best traction going forward or are some reversed?

James
Engineer/Coach
Team 180 SPAM
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-04-2002, 10:30
Katie Reynolds Katie Reynolds is offline
Registered User
no team (NEW Apple Corps)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Appleton, WI, USA
Posts: 2,598
Katie Reynolds has a reputation beyond reputeKatie Reynolds has a reputation beyond reputeKatie Reynolds has a reputation beyond reputeKatie Reynolds has a reputation beyond reputeKatie Reynolds has a reputation beyond reputeKatie Reynolds has a reputation beyond reputeKatie Reynolds has a reputation beyond reputeKatie Reynolds has a reputation beyond reputeKatie Reynolds has a reputation beyond reputeKatie Reynolds has a reputation beyond reputeKatie Reynolds has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Katie Reynolds Send a message via Yahoo to Katie Reynolds
Click here - if you scroll down a bit, you will see the file card/brush that Beatty is using to crawl across the carpet... on each side there are six of these file cards - three in a row, two rows - on each side; or twelve file cards total. From what I have seen, Beatty cannot go in reverse. They can barely turn, if they can turn at all. Maybe someone from the team could give a little insight ...

- Katie
__________________
Team #93 - NEW Apple Corps
Student - 2001-2004
Team #857 - Superior Roboworks
Mentor - 2006-2009
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-04-2002, 10:36
Ricky Q.'s Avatar Unsung FIRST Hero
Ricky Q. Ricky Q. is offline
yee haw!
FRC #0148 (Robowranglers)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,651
Ricky Q. has a reputation beyond reputeRicky Q. has a reputation beyond reputeRicky Q. has a reputation beyond reputeRicky Q. has a reputation beyond reputeRicky Q. has a reputation beyond reputeRicky Q. has a reputation beyond reputeRicky Q. has a reputation beyond reputeRicky Q. has a reputation beyond reputeRicky Q. has a reputation beyond reputeRicky Q. has a reputation beyond reputeRicky Q. has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Ricky Q.
Quote:
Originally posted by Katie_93
... on each side there are six of these file cards - three in a row, two rows - on each side; or twelve file cards total. From what I have seen, Beatty cannot go in reverse. They can barely turn, if they can turn at all. Maybe someone from the team could give a little insight ...

- Katie
Here's a picture for everyone, It kind of helps, I try lol

__________________
Ricky Quinones
Director of Sales - VEX Robotics
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-04-2002, 11:01
Gui Cavalcanti's Avatar
Gui Cavalcanti Gui Cavalcanti is offline
Robogeek
no team
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: May 2001
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Needham, MA
Posts: 224
Gui Cavalcanti is a name known to allGui Cavalcanti is a name known to allGui Cavalcanti is a name known to allGui Cavalcanti is a name known to allGui Cavalcanti is a name known to allGui Cavalcanti is a name known to all
Send a message via AIM to Gui Cavalcanti
Question Ripped carpet?

There are file brushes on Beatty's shuffling feet... don't those things damage the carpet? I mean, if robots start pushing back on beatty and those feet slip, doesn't that have the potential to be *really* bad for the carpet?

Also, how'd they get past the "sharp pointy objects" rule on the inspection list?
__________________
Gui Cavalcanti

All-Purpose College Mentor with a Mechanical Specialty

Franklin W. Olin College of Engineering, Class of 2008
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-04-2002, 11:27
Joe Johnson's Avatar Unsung FIRST Hero
Joe Johnson Joe Johnson is offline
Engineer at Medrobotics
AKA: Dr. Joe
FRC #0088 (TJ2)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: May 2001
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: Raynham, MA
Posts: 2,648
Joe Johnson has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Johnson has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Johnson has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Johnson has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Johnson has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Johnson has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Johnson has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Johnson has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Johnson has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Johnson has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Johnson has a reputation beyond repute
Road Kill along the 80/90 Highway...

The list of teams that "could have" or "should have" beat Beatty is a long list indeed. The fact of the matter is that Beatty/Hammond keeps on winning and we all keep on thinking that we might have beaten them... ...if...

Now on to the various issues. Concerning Beatty getting DQ'd for carpet damage, in order for them to damage the carpet you have to MOVE them.

How is this going to be accomplished without you yourself damaging the carpet? I suppose that the team trying to move Beatty will be the one more likely to damage the carpet.

As to the accertion that Beatty cannot move backwards, is this true? How certain are you of this claim?

Finally, has anyone (or team of robots) tried to push Beatty into their home zone? Was it successful? If they can't back up, it seems to me that you could push them into your home zone with the two goals and more or less defeat them -- the hunter becomes the hunted, eh?

Has anyone tried this?

One last thing. Can Beaty let go of goals it has docked with?

All very important data that teams that want to avoid being road kill along 80/90 as it passes through Hammond need to know...

Joe J.
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-04-2002, 12:07
Mike Soukup's Avatar
Mike Soukup Mike Soukup is offline
Software guy
FRC #0111 (Wildstang)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: May 2001
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Posts: 797
Mike Soukup has a reputation beyond reputeMike Soukup has a reputation beyond reputeMike Soukup has a reputation beyond reputeMike Soukup has a reputation beyond reputeMike Soukup has a reputation beyond reputeMike Soukup has a reputation beyond reputeMike Soukup has a reputation beyond reputeMike Soukup has a reputation beyond reputeMike Soukup has a reputation beyond reputeMike Soukup has a reputation beyond reputeMike Soukup has a reputation beyond repute
we've tried and tried....

WildStang is on the list of teams that could have and should have beat Beatty over the years, but they're a great team and usually find a way to win.

No one has yet tried to push Beatty from behind. We think it's possible but didn't need to since they gave us a goal in both matches.

They cannot let goal of the goals once they have them. And good luck stealing a goal from them, it won't happen.

Mike
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-04-2002, 13:05
Katie Reynolds Katie Reynolds is offline
Registered User
no team (NEW Apple Corps)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Appleton, WI, USA
Posts: 2,598
Katie Reynolds has a reputation beyond reputeKatie Reynolds has a reputation beyond reputeKatie Reynolds has a reputation beyond reputeKatie Reynolds has a reputation beyond reputeKatie Reynolds has a reputation beyond reputeKatie Reynolds has a reputation beyond reputeKatie Reynolds has a reputation beyond reputeKatie Reynolds has a reputation beyond reputeKatie Reynolds has a reputation beyond reputeKatie Reynolds has a reputation beyond reputeKatie Reynolds has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Katie Reynolds Send a message via Yahoo to Katie Reynolds
Re: Ripped carpet?

Joe: You don't have to move them for the carpet to be damaged ... they do that all on their own!

Quote:
Originally posted by Gui Cavalcanti
There are file brushes on Beatty's shuffling feet... don't those things damage the carpet? I mean, if robots start pushing back on beatty and those feet slip, doesn't that have the potential to be *really* bad for the carpet?

Also, how'd they get past the "sharp pointy objects" rule on the inspection list?
They don't rip the carpet - but they do bunch it up. There is even a close-up of Beatty crawling during one of the elim. matches and you can see that they are bunching up the carpet. If you look in the rules, DQ4 says, "Deliberately damaging the playing field, controls or balls is strictly illegal and will result in disqualification of your alliance. Robot wheels must not, for example, damage the field carpet. This will be checked during robot inspection at registration on the first event day and throughout the competition. Bunching up or puckering the carpet is considered damage to the field." - Though they don't rip the carpet, they do bunch it up when they crawl, as mentioned before. They do, however, rip the tape dividing the field into zones. The tape has to be redone after every match Beatty is in.

I am almost positive that they cannot move backwards. They have drive wheels in back but once the file cards are down and crawling, the drive wheels become useless. But again, the people on team 71 are the experts! No one at MMR, at least that I am aware of, tried to push Beatty from behind. Beatty cannot let go of goals after they grab them. After the qualification match we beat them in, it took the refs over three minutes to pry Beatty off of one goal. Like Mike said: once they have the goal, there's no getting it away from them. Their grabbers also slide up and down the PVC arm so they can adjust when grabbing the goal.

- Katie
__________________
Team #93 - NEW Apple Corps
Student - 2001-2004
Team #857 - Superior Roboworks
Mentor - 2006-2009
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-04-2002, 13:30
Deej Deej is offline
Registered User
#0190 (Gompei and the HERD)
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Worcester, MA
Posts: 60
Deej is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to Deej
Beating those file card brushes is going to be a tough feat no matter what team is against them...T-190 has 4 of these brushes as anchors on our bot. They are actuated by a sliding cam using pnuematic cylinders. Once they move, they lift the bot about a quarter inch off the ground. Once they are engaged, there is no moving us. With just two pounds placed on one brush, it takes well over 100 pounds of force to move it (we went off our scale). We found that in all of our matches, there is no one that can move us when we have two goals, so seeing as though beatty has 6 of them, I feel as though they are not going to be moved period. Further backing of this came as in a few matches we have been tourqued enough to get just one brush on the floor (three off), and we still haven't been moved. My two cents.
__________________
Deej
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-04-2002, 14:47
ChrisA's Avatar
ChrisA ChrisA is offline
Registered User
#0857 (Superior Roboworks)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Michigan Tech
Posts: 157
ChrisA is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to ChrisA
thought id let anyone who is interested know this...

in talking to beattys drivers (yes, i know i shouldnt be talking with the opposition) i learned that they are able to steer their robot though it is very minimal. im not really sure how they can do it but they said they could (not sure whether i should be trusting them or not).


since were talking about beating beatty strategies here i thought id also mention to anyone wondering...

for those of you who dont know beatty has a tether:
beatty has a tether.

for those of you who know about the tether:
the tether can only be used when their one arm is taken off (cant remember which one it is) because of weight.
__________________
Programmer
----------------
Team#857
Superior Roboworks

WildStang Alum
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-04-2002, 14:54
Mark Garver's Avatar
Mark Garver Mark Garver is offline
Registered User
AKA: Garver
no team
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Rookie Year: 1998
Location: Milford, Michigan
Posts: 129
Mark Garver is a splendid one to beholdMark Garver is a splendid one to beholdMark Garver is a splendid one to beholdMark Garver is a splendid one to beholdMark Garver is a splendid one to beholdMark Garver is a splendid one to behold
Send a message via AIM to Mark Garver
The can back up

Beatty can back up according to their drivers! They claim to loss a little power but they say they are still stronger than any one else. I guess only time will tell, meaning this weekend. I hear that there is a bot driven by my little brother that whats to take on the powerhouse of Beatty. See ya all in GR
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-04-2002, 20:56
Ricky Q.'s Avatar Unsung FIRST Hero
Ricky Q. Ricky Q. is offline
yee haw!
FRC #0148 (Robowranglers)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,651
Ricky Q. has a reputation beyond reputeRicky Q. has a reputation beyond reputeRicky Q. has a reputation beyond reputeRicky Q. has a reputation beyond reputeRicky Q. has a reputation beyond reputeRicky Q. has a reputation beyond reputeRicky Q. has a reputation beyond reputeRicky Q. has a reputation beyond reputeRicky Q. has a reputation beyond reputeRicky Q. has a reputation beyond reputeRicky Q. has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Ricky Q.
Re: Road Kill along the 80/90 Highway...

Quote:
Originally posted by Joe Johnson

Finally, has anyone (or team of robots) tried to push Beatty into their home zone? Was it successful? If they can't back up, it seems to me that you could push them into your home zone with the two goals and more or less defeat them -- the hunter becomes the hunted, eh?

Has anyone tried this?

Joe J.
If you take a look at the last 30 seconds of Semi 2 Match 2 we tried pushing Beatty back into our home zone by pushing on one of the goals they had, it didn't work...we didn't try pushing directly on the bot, maybe that would have worked better, and yes we are on the list of teams that could have/should have beat Beatty, the wrong things just happened at the wrong times. Can't wait till nationals!
__________________
Ricky Quinones
Director of Sales - VEX Robotics
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-04-2002, 15:28
Jnadke Jnadke is offline
Go Badgers!
#0093
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Appleton, WI
Posts: 775
Jnadke is on a distinguished road
Send a message via ICQ to Jnadke Send a message via AIM to Jnadke Send a message via Yahoo to Jnadke
The better strategy seems not to push agains them, but it seems to be possible to re-direct them side to side. They did take some hits and were pushed sideways somewhat.
__________________
The best moments of our lives fall in two categories: those that did happen and those that did not.
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-04-2002, 22:51
kmcclary's Avatar
kmcclary kmcclary is offline
Founder 830/1015;Mentor 66/470/1502
FRC #0470 (Alpha Omega Robotics)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Rookie Year: 1994
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 491
kmcclary has a reputation beyond reputekmcclary has a reputation beyond reputekmcclary has a reputation beyond reputekmcclary has a reputation beyond reputekmcclary has a reputation beyond reputekmcclary has a reputation beyond reputekmcclary has a reputation beyond reputekmcclary has a reputation beyond reputekmcclary has a reputation beyond reputekmcclary has a reputation beyond reputekmcclary has a reputation beyond repute
Re: we've tried and tried....

Quote:
Originally posted by Mike Soukup
No one has yet tried to push Beatty from behind. We think it's possible but didn't need to since they gave us a goal in both matches.

They cannot let goal of the goals once they have them. And good luck stealing a goal from them, it won't happen.

Mike
I know we can't reach under the goals, but is there any rule or reason why a robot "forklift" can't just reach under another robot?

To defeat Beatty, you'll need a serious "traction breaker" machine of some kind. One "wedge front" machine won't do it. The file card arm length almost guarantees you'll have to lift it vertically. You'll need a pair of wedge bots working together, or else a true forklift robot.

Now a forklift robot doesn't even need to grab the goals itself. If robot forklifts are allowed, it seems the smartest move to me would be to let Beatty (or another two goal controller) grab the pair of goals. You then simply waltz over, jack up 'ol 71 to break its traction, and slowly tractor the entire robot and the two goals it is still holding to your scoring area while it wiggles its file cards in the air. If Beatty can't release the goals, all the better! They can't let go while you're tractoring them and have to help you!

You simply need adjustable drop down or extendable thin forks with a wedge shaped front edge & a small roller embedded in each of them, and a really geared down drivetrain. Think "service station quick lift hydraulic car jack or scissors jack", but done with lead screws or cylinders. The weight of the robot you're lifting an inch or two provides the traction weight for you. (Of course, this won't work against robots with extendable "lunar lander feet"...)

Two wedge fronted robots might be able to do the same thing with a lot of coordination if each one gets on an opposite side of the two goal controller and approach each other. Just like two guys carrying a sofa between them. Only problem: Beatty's partner is going to be harassing you while you try it.

As long as you don't try to forklift the goals, are there any rules preventing this?

Any forklift (or wedge fronted) robots out there now that are capable of taking them on this way?

If you're planning on taking on Beatty, I'd start thinking about the fastest way to make some add-on wedges or forks for the fronts of your robots!

- Keith
__________________
Keith McClary - Organizer/Mentor/Sponsor - Ann Arbor MI area FIRST teams
ACTI - Automation Computer Technologies, Inc. (Sponsoring FIRST teams since 2001!)
MI Robot Club (Trainer) / GO-Tech Maker's Club / RepRap-Michigan) / SEMI CNC Club
"Certifiably Insane": Started FIVE FRC teams & many robot clubs (so far)!
2002: 830 "Rat Pack" | 2003-5;14: 1015;1076 "Pi Hi Samurai" | 2005-6: 1549 "Washtenuts"/"Fire Traxx"
2005-(on): 1502 "Technical Difficulties" | 2006-(on): FIRST Volunteer!
2009-(on): 470 "Alpha Omega" | WAFL | Sponsor & "Floating Engineer" for MI Dist 13 (Washtenaw Cnty)
2011: 3638 "Tigertrons" | 2013-(on): 4395 "ViBots" | 2014-(on) 66 "Grizzlies"
"Home" Teams: 66, 470, 1076, 1502, 4395
Local FIRST alumni at or coming to Ann Arbor (UM/EMU/WCC/Cleary)?
...We Want YOU as a Mentor! Please email me for info!
Support CDF Reputation - If a posting helped, thank 'em with rep points!
"It must be FRC build season when your spouse and children become 'Action Items 8 & 9'..."
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Beatty, Kingman, Guerrillas Jimmy2002 Regional Competitions 14 10-04-2002 14:15
Beatty Forum Digo CD Forum Support 3 09-04-2002 21:49
Beatty and Kingman JAlpert Regional Competitions 51 08-04-2002 16:59
beating beatty Mullen Regional Competitions 1 03-04-2002 23:03
Beatty Shuffle MChen Regional Competitions 1 03-04-2002 10:37


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 13:14.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi