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Unread 07-04-2002, 19:31
tinyfarnsworth tinyfarnsworth is offline
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Talking Fork Lift Robot

Our team this year included a forklift used to lift up other robots and at this point in the season we have pretty much pefected it. all the robots that brag about there great "traction" and brage if there drive sytem is of the ground and that was the idea behind it. please let me know what you think of it. Was this a good idea?
would you pick us as a aliance ?
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Unread 07-04-2002, 19:43
Ben Mitchell Ben Mitchell is offline
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I would not pick you as an alliance because your robot, rather than seeking an elegant solution to score points, instead attacks other robots, and uses them as other teasm would use goals.


Your strategy could damage another team's robots beyond repair, and I believe it is not in the spirit of the FIRST events.

The idea is to make a great and elegant solution to mechanical problems, not to play battlebots.

You have wrong game.

Sorry, but that's how i feel, and since you asked...
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Unread 07-04-2002, 19:50
tinyfarnsworth tinyfarnsworth is offline
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you speak such harsh words. although you are right that the idea is to find inovative solutions our ideas as a ROOKIE TEAM that could not spend more that 400$ on our robot made simple and effective use of our robot.
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Unread 07-04-2002, 19:51
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i think that goes against "Gratious Professionalism." if you're interrested in destroying other robots, go check out robot wars or battle bots. we don't play that stuff in FIRST
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Unread 07-04-2002, 19:55
tinyfarnsworth tinyfarnsworth is offline
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i asure you our intention was in no way meant as harm. we were not look for battle bots. we like every other team have or weekness's and used our forks for distruction would be wrong and is not used in that manner.

more robots have been tipped over and damage by other teams than the # of robots we even picked up. we dont inflict any more dammage that any other robot our there
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Unread 07-04-2002, 20:00
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i didn't intend for my post to sound harmful. i was just saying that if you intending to go out there and purposely damage robots, that would be wrong.

sorry for any misunderstanding...
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Unread 07-04-2002, 20:04
tinyfarnsworth tinyfarnsworth is offline
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no problem. any one else want to express any streanght or weekness's we have please reply
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Unread 07-04-2002, 21:21
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I don't see it as going against "gracious professionalism", as long as your objectives are only to temporarily disable, not PERMANENTLY disable, the robots of other teams. I think, however, that unless you've truly perfected the forklift operation and know your opposition well enough, you run a greater risk of heavily damaging an opponent robot, so much so that it may be deemed as malicious play.
And as for picking your team for an alliance partner, it would really depend on what other robots get picked---if the robots that get picked are all quick and most have tethers, then I probably wouldn't pick your team. Teams like #16 (baxter bomb squad) are so quick you probably couldn't lift 'em up even if you had all the practice in the world, and those with tethers would still score 10 points regardless of having a foot (or wheel) on the ground.
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Unread 07-04-2002, 21:40
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Quote:
Originally posted by David Kelly
i think that goes against "Gratious Professionalism." if you're interrested in destroying other robots, go check out robot wars or battle bots. we don't play that stuff in FIRST
BEFORE you all jump on the flaming bandwagon, you should read the rule book.

They purposely added the lifting clause because they wanted a team to do it. As long as you "Handle with care," they'll let you do it. If you drop the robot, you get disqualified.

So, if the team that gets lifted, gets damaged, then they get compensated. DQ gives that team 3 times their own points...
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Unread 07-04-2002, 22:25
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Our team (610) robot also has a mechanism for doing something similar. It is a wedge. Basically, we slide the wedge under another robot and it lifts two of the wheels up. There are little claws on the wedge that come up and hook onto the opposing robot's structure so that they can't drive off the wedge unless we retract the claws. It works and we haven't had an incident where we damanged another robot with the wedge yet. But we were afraid to use it after we got a warning cuz our wedge got under a goal. So, in the finals of the Canadian Regional, we tied up the wedge so it wouldn't come down. The added weight adds to our traction while reducing traction of the wedged robot.

Our intent wasn't to destroy or damage a robot. In fact, our mechanism for grabbing the goals was the one to cause more damage. Sorry to that team, if you are reading this btw...

I'm sorta angry that FIRST left this so open. Cuz some teams don't even think of this strategy because they think it is illegal.... and they get angry when they see other robots using it. I completely understand. That's why we don't use our wedge much. And we probably won't use it much at the Championship too....
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Unread 07-04-2002, 22:42
tinyfarnsworth tinyfarnsworth is offline
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we have not had a problem yet the judge say it is perfectly legal and liked the idea they only tell us to make sure if they are up to be carfull not to spear a robot and damage them otherwise its fine. we dont have a problem with the goal because they just stay down and when there done anything can run over them with no problem we just dont life them when under a goal
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Unread 07-04-2002, 23:22
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I'm new here. I just found this great community. I'm a Systems Engineering Junior participating in my first ever FIRST competition (My team's third year). I came here planning to lurk, but this thread caught my attention. I just have to throw in my 2 cents...

IMHO, forklifting other robots (safely) IS a very elegant solution to score points. There are three point scoring resources on the field; goals, balls, and the robots themselves. The great majority of teams have completely ignored the 40 point differential and host of added strategical benefits that come along with forklifting opponent robots.

I don't think this tactic comes anywhere near violating 'gracious professionalism' or the spirit of FIRST if done in a non-damaging manner. I think that perhaps some react to it with hostility because they fear and envy such a potentialy powerful tactic.

I can't wait to see some good lifter bots in action at Nats. Cheers!

-Joel
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Unread 07-04-2002, 23:36
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picking up and moving other robots is a fair and excellent stategy. It is completely within the rules. The only problem with it is, what happens when you make a mistake, and severly damage another teams robot? I thought about this a little but dismissed the idea. I for one am not willing to take risks with other peoples robots. If your robot safely and effectively picks up and moves other robots, I congratulate you. I hope you are prepared to take responsibility for damage caused by your robot, and realize what it might mean to other teams.
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Unread 07-04-2002, 23:44
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Well....

We were all warned that full speed robot collisions would be allowed, would be common, and should be a serious design consideration for this year's competition. I think there is a fine line between damage caused due to malicious acts and damage caused due to lack of sufficient robustness in design by the 'victim'.

Note: I'm envisioning potential damage caused by running the forks under the robot to be lifted; not damage caused by dropping a robot.

-Joel
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Unread 08-04-2002, 11:49
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Disclaimer: this post in no way reflects the opinions of SPAM as a whole or any other of it's members

that being said, if i personally had a robot that i spent 6 weeks creating and you make an offensive maneuver towards my robot (i.e. not trying to block me from a goal or from balls, rather trying to score using my bot) don't be surprised if i make a few offensive maneuvers in response.

in short: you had better disable me on the first try, cause you won't get a second try after your forks are laying on the ground....

just my angry 2 cents

George
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