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View Poll Results: How much planning goes into your robot?
Drafting - None or very little pre-assembly planning - Hey, We're Optimistic. 27 12.39%
Drafting - Moderate - Only essential systems are drawn up. 94 43.12%
Drafting - Extreme - You could drive the robot before it's been built! 73 33.49%
Calculations - None or very little - We live on the edge. 18 8.26%
Calculations - Moderate - Yeah, we did a few to get some things right. 107 49.08%
Calculations - Extreme - Is that an African or European Swallow? 59 27.06%
Robot!?!? You mean we're supposed to be building a robot!? 30 13.76%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 218. You may not vote on this poll

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Unread 15-08-2004, 19:19
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Re: How much planning goes into your robot?

We make solid models and detailed drawings of every part on the robot, including kit parts. This makes our assembly actually assemble without having to widen holes, remake parts when interferences are discovered.

In 2003, the came in very useful when the drive key ways in our primary drive shaft started to fail. We got some material, printed out the drawings and submitted them to the shop. We had replacement parts ready before the key ways actually failed.

This past year, one of our high school students learned enough to be able to make our engineering drawings based on the models which we uploaded on our message board. He prepared a design notebook with every part on the robot, material, how much it cost, etc. It was an impressive piece of work, and he really knew how to make engineering drawings by the end.

Since we have something like 400 different parts on our robots, that's a lot of drawings.
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Unread 16-08-2004, 11:18
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Re: How much planning goes into your robot?

Hey, I feel slighted. There's nothing in the thread so far about software.

This year was different for the TechnoKats in a couple of ways. First, the programming language changed, so none of the previous code was usable. Second, the usual programming mentor was called away on business just when things needed to get started, and I got asked to try to take charge.

With no prior experience with FIRST robotics, and no idea how programming the InnovationFirst system worked, I said yes anyway. I started by planning what I thought was a reasonable software architecture, with the control algorithms decoupled from the actual I/O, having separate bits of code dedicated to mediating between internal program states and the sensors and actuators. It turned out to match what was possible with the system very well. A couple of weeks later, everything was mapped out and most of it looked like it was going to be easy to make work. By the time the robot's motors were wired up, the software was ready to run.

The advance planning paid off again when it came time to implement the autonomous code. The architecture had been designed to make it easy to deal with both manual control and programmed sequences, and it turned out to work that way in practice.

Now that I know my way around the IDE and this year's default code better, I intend to make use of separate source code files better next year. I've already begun sketching out a more easily configurable PID control routine, and I'll probably be working with a couple of students this fall to prototype a motor/feedback package so we can experiment with it.
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Unread 16-08-2004, 17:12
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Re: How much planning goes into your robot?

I tried doing the same thing, but didn't start early enough and didn't get it tweaked enough.
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Unread 16-08-2004, 17:26
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Inside Sparky 384

Here at the Sparky 384 HQ, we have learned one thing well: planning helps prevent frustration, prevents relationships from breaking up, and also prevents those late night runs to Walgreen's for PeptoBismo.

At Sparky, we use a highly evolved form of decision making that not only makes the leaders lives easier, but also prevents one person from being targeted for an idea that didn't pan out at the competition. It's called a "survey". This "survey" helps us discover what our team wants in a robot.

After the patent pending "survey", we then go to the drawing boards (aka Clark's Office) to draw up plans. We are never done. As long as the robot isn't in the crate and off to FedEx, there is still time for changes. While this is a blessing, we have limited it's curse part by freezing certain parts of the design, such as the drive system and others.
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Unread 29-01-2006, 00:45
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Re: How much planning goes into your robot?

oh, we've drawn up several designs of different parts, debated pros and cons of everything. We have a couple of really good drawings that sprang from thin air at 2:00AM. But so far, all we've done is planning.
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Unread 29-01-2006, 21:20
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Re: How much planning goes into your robot?

Well... It all depends on which team I've worked with that we're talking about.

Some of my old teams have sponsors that have their own methods,
that range from a mix of student/sponsor design to students
stating WHAT they want the robot to do, and the sponsors then
fully design a machine for them to manufacture. I'll let them
speak for themselves.

Now as for "my teams" (the few I'm working with the most), I've
provided a "Formal Game Analysis" method to help the *students*
mathematically figure out what designs will work, and what probably
won't. It looks at a game and *suggests* a range of *possible*
tactics and bot designs. (BTW, what it suggested for THIS year
blew even ME away!). I could talk about that method, but that's
a whole separate thread, and not relevant at this point of the season.

Anyway, one way or another we're left with a set of PRIORITIZED GOALS
for the machine, AND the overall machine's concept.

Next, **THE BIG RULE: "Machine Goals will be accomplished in PRIORITY
ORDER". Resources ($$, people, matl's, weight allowance, etc.) shall
be shunted from lower goals to achieve higher, as needed."** No
sense building something that won't accomplish your #1 goal!

Ex: A few years ago, we had: #1 as "Grab Small Balls", and #4 as
"Handle Big Ball".Well, during design the Big Ball Arm got in the
way of the small ball collector, so it was dropped!

We next make the goals CONCRETE, and PRIORITIZE them.
Ex: We don't say "It'll score a lot". Instead, concrete actions,
speeds, and times within the round are all defined. For example:
"In Auto Mode, the machine shall take no longer than <xx> seconds
to <move to this position> <do THAT> (or whatever)."
That's pretty specific! Of course with a 10 sec auto mode
this THEN suggests that "In Auto Mode, the PAYLOAD must
require no longer than (10-xx) sec to <do ITS specific thing>", etc.
We then do this for ALL actions, at ALL points throughout the game.

This yields a VERY specific set of performance specs for the machine,
but does NOT say HOW they should be accomplished.


At this point, my teams diverge again...


Some of my old teams then use "Centralized Design". The entire thing
is worked out in ALL detail. CAD drawings are made, etc. The build
now progresses like a manufacturing plant. Yea, this works well for
some teams, and their sponsor's philosophy. The design is well controlled,
Production management tools can be employed, etc.

But if you have TOO much of that, I've found it hard to get anyone to show
up to BUILD it! If for any reason they haven't felt a part of the decision
process (which often happens if you decide AGAINST their "favorite design")
they may even *abandon* the project because now they are ONLY
"labor for someone else's machine". (Hmmm...)


My current team uses a DIFFERENT philosophy. We let the SUBGROUPS
make ALL the manufacturing decisions for THEIR part of the problem,
DURING the build. After all, they are the ones that have to make it
work, they already have a very specific set of design goals in hand
it MUST accomplish, and a manufacturing timetable to meet.

So let's say for example Drivetrain decides to choose a walker bot
over a tank. Our rule: If it can meet ALL of the design specs we
laid out (including time, weight and size allocated to it) AND it can
be made to work in time, GO FOR IT!

This isn't without its own challenges... We often have some verrrrry
nervous mentors! But we HAVE "local" mentors in each subgroup to
keep an eye on it. You also don't KNOW exactly what you'll end up
with when they start!

But the advantages are many:

1) We get to building sooner. Once the spec is in place, they GO.
2) It challenges the students. All of the problems have NOT been worked
out when they begin. They have to THINK, and there are many
opportunities to teach them about how to solve something.
3) It encourages "creative problem solving" on the fly. Some VERY cool
stuff has come out of groups to cure certain problems encountered.
4) The design isn't "fixed in stone". If one thing won't work, the local
subgroup has the AUTHORITY to change things, whenever needed.
For example: If Drivetrain's "super delux 27 wheel drive" they're
attempting is overweight, won't work, or parts aren't available for it,
AND a basic two wheel two castor drive WILL, Drivetrain group is
FREE to change it in the MIDDLE of the build, as long as it won't
affect the STRATEGY of the bot.
5) We're free to EXPERIMENT. A subgroup that's ahead of schedule
may decide to try another thing, to see if that will work BETTER.
(...and if it DOES work better, use THAT instead!)

But really, HALF the fun of this method is we DON'T know what the bot
it'll LOOK like, until we're done. Yes, we know what it will DO, and
when it'll be READY, but the final form is VERY mutable during the build.
Also, we all often drop and run over to look when someone comes up with
something REALLY cool, which means you don't want to miss ANY build sessions!

But the best part is that when you're done, EVERYONE feels ownership.
You each know that YOUR decisions made during the build contributed
to <this> or <that> ability of the final robot.

Now don't get me wrong... I'm not knocking Super-CAD/CAE driven teams
at all! Testing a design on a CAE system REALLY helps! And if you
have way too large of a student/mentor ratio, having a huge work
plan predefined helps. People can just come back when they need
more work, and grab "Task #27" off the queue. VERY efficient.

But if you don't have a lot of CAD/CAE expertise on hand, giving
everyone the freedom to make LOCAL decisions DURING manufacturing
DOES work, and may even get you off the starting block a bit sooner.

Now IMO, the KEYS for ANY build method are having:
- WELL DEFINED GOALS for the robot to accomplish;
- A good work schedule defined up front that they MUST meet;
- Make sure everyone has the RESOURCES to accomplish (training,
matl, money, mentors, etc.);
- Someone in EACH group responsible for keeping an eye on the
schedule (no getting caught in trivia, we have a schedule to meet!);
- Having the GUTS to drop one line of research for another, if needed;
- GOOD COMMUNICATIONS, so everyone knows the status - between
all subgroups, students/mentors, teams and sponsor's locations,
team and school, etc.

Does that answer your question?

I hope this helps!

- Keith
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Unread 29-01-2006, 21:29
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Re: How much planning goes into your robot?

We are a very detailed oreinted team. Partially because we wnat to make sure every aspect of the robot is built right and also to make sure that our kids are involved in the process so they actually learn from the experience instead of just showing up one day and BAM!- there a completed robot sitting in the shop one day after brainstorming.
We communicate with the CAD team and the sub team contribute their design ideas to the CAD team and the robot is constantly weighed.
I can't really see how slapping the robot together really works. Wasn't there a team last year that said they showed up to a cometition at 157 lbs or something like that. Precise planning helps to avoid disaters like that.
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