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Originally Posted by CJO
First of all to reply to the comment that "money isn't really as important in FIRST . . . 10k is plenty," that is absolutely false. Sure, you can enter with 10k, but the winning teams spend a lot more. Even though the bot itself may be within the (rather notinal) price cap, the price of machining equipment, facilities, etc really add up, and it is very unlikely that one wil excell at FIRST without the facilites that huge quantities of money represent.
For two years our team was a "Oh they did so well with so little" losing team, but our third year, we did objectively well with a lot of many, yet we had the same people, the same "inspiration" we had all along.
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I agree, which is why the # of FIRST teams is reaching a plateu. FIRST is simply costing too much and is the number one reason why many teams stop and don't enter in the first place. I think the investment is worth it, but it's just unfortunate reality. Also, its easier for a team with resources and/or parents with resources to meet the costs than teams from lower income and/or more rural areas. Jesuit is a private school where I believe the parents have a higher education level and higher socio-economic status than the average high school. And thus we've seen them grow to be a great team - in all respects from robot to outreach, made possible partly because of the increased resources they have. Glasser and I have spoke before about this issue.
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Originally Posted by CJO
I think that many of those who criticize BB for violence, and especially for the attention it recieves fall prey to the same vice which many, many politicians fall for. What it comes down to is that the people who are "behind" FIRST have an idea for what they would like our culture to be. They are convinced that it is our ultimate culture -- the road to utopia, if you will. In fact, they are so convinced of the virtue of their position that it is the only concievable thing for others to believe. In fact, it is so good, that if people will not believe by themselves -- if they select another path -- then they must be forced to believe for their own good. Jason Morella may recall a conversation to this effect in which I (and a couple others) contended that FIRST would be willing to force the beauty of its ideals on others, even be it a suspension of free will.
Thus, Battle Bots threatens FIRST because it presents a different concept. One in which the individual is valued above the system; personal creativity above the "good of the team;" the ability to survive the unknown above the ability to survive in a carefully structured environment.
Not that there are not some very, very excellent things about FIRST, indeed, even though I have had some terrible FIRST eperiences, I still encourage FIRST at every opportunity. Still, the BB concepts address some of FIRST's weak points (just as FIRST addresses some of its), which is why some feel so threatened.
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FIRST wishing to maintain such tight control over their concept, will unfortunately keep them out of 90% of the schools. Perhaps some day they will realize that to fulfill their vision, they will need to release some of their control. Why can't there be small county level competitions held at a high school or Community college (no A/V, no huge overhead costs)? Then winners can advance to a regional or national event. Maybe the game can be released at the end of summer to allow for smaller competitions (that cost maybe $300-$500)? Have the kit of parts vastly reduced to reduce cost - get the entry fee down to $1000-$2000. Something must radically change in the next five years in order for FIRST to grow.
I see it almost like the MAC vs PC debate. In one hand you have a wonderful product that works extremely well, but most people don't use it and its expensive because Apple maintains tight control over it; and on the other you have an OK product that works most of the time, everyone uses it, and its a lot cheaper. Both are effective products, but the cost of PC's and their lack of any one body maintaining control keeps the PC at most of our fingertips.
I know it's an old thread, but some of us still conteplate this issue each year about this time, so get over it
