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View Poll Results: Is Battlebots I.Q. a threat to FIRST?
Nope, true quality and decency will show through, XFL 77 34.53%
Although Battlebots will climb up, they won't be that big, think UPN vs. NBC, ABC, or CBS 56 25.11%
They will be on the same level, like American and National baseball leagues 39 17.49%
Battelbots IQ is a better concept and will triumph over FIRST 12 5.38%
Don't Care 39 17.49%
Voters: 223. You may not vote on this poll

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Unread 05-10-2005, 12:09
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Re: Battlebots I.Q.- A serious threat to FIRST or a half thought up cheep copy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Anderson
The TechnoKats used the kit chassis (and gearboxes) to make a quick software development drivebase at the beginning of the build season. It directly benefited us, a 14-year veteran team. We also indirectly benefit from those rookie teams having well-built and working drivebases. It helps raise the level of performance across the board, making for a better competitive environment.

I think having a consistent set of basic building blocks is one of the important differences between FIRST and something like BattleBots. Sure, most experienced teams can do well without having things handed to them in a box, but that fosters elitism and makes it harder for newcomers.
The BeachBots used our KitBot chassis to test out a Mechanum drive. It was fun to drive but had trouble holding ground so we dropped it. In the absence of the kit chassis we would have had to make a decision much earlier as to which drive we would use. Due to fabrication difficulties, we didn't make the final decision until Week 5 of build. This would not have been possible and we wouldn't have even attempted the Mechanum drive without KitBot.

Our drivetrain used the stock gearbox and sprockets. We only changed the wheel and added a couple of sets of sprockets for six wheel drive. For the game it was the right thing to do. Next year will probably be different.
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Unread 07-10-2005, 20:37
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Re: Battlebots I.Q.- A serious threat to FIRST or a half thought up cheep copy?

I have a couple thoughts about the BBIQ/FIRST discussion, but first a quick note. I participated on my high school's FIRST team for four years, and will someday get involved again, so I am somewhat biased towards FIRST. However, I can see strengths in both.

However, FIRST has one thing that BBIQ doesn't seem to offer. BBIQ seems to be nothing more than an extension of an engineering class where the goal is to build a robot. FIRST's goal is different. Every year Dean speaks of how the goal of FIRST isn't to build a robot, but instead to learn teamwork, leadership, business and engineering skills. While the robot and competition are a major focus, FIRST also recognizes the other aspects. The best example is in the true 'champion'. From everything I've read, the 'champion' of BBIQ is the team that does the best. The top prize in FIRST is for something different. The Chairmans Award goes to the team that contributes the most, in the local community, to FIRST, and to other teams. They also give awards for other things, teams with great websites, great animations, and great spirits. While these teams may not have great engineering skills (although they may) they have taken the opportunity to accel at other skills.

My second point is on the biggest complaint heard of FIRST, it's cost. Yes, $6000 to register, and more to build a robot is a challenge, however, that's part of what FIRST is. In the real world, most companies fail in their first year. Money is always a challenge, and FIRST emphasizes that wether intentional or not. It inspires a team to work hard on the business side of the challenge. With regards to BBIQ, the situation doesn't seem to be much different. Many posters report bills of $10,000+, although this may have changed as more competions seem to have popped up.

Just my 2 cents.

Pat
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Unread 08-10-2005, 01:45
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Re: Battlebots I.Q.- A serious threat to FIRST or a half thought up cheep copy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by patTeam241
My second point is on the biggest complaint heard of FIRST, it's cost. Yes, $6000 to register, and more to build a robot is a challenge, however, that's part of what FIRST is. In the real world, most companies fail in their first year. Money is always a challenge, and FIRST emphasizes that wether intentional or not. It inspires a team to work hard on the business side of the challenge. With regards to BBIQ, the situation doesn't seem to be much different. Many posters report bills of $10,000+, although this may have changed as more competions seem to have popped up.

Just my 2 cents.

Pat
Pat, the cost of FIRST is definitely the biggest complaint I hear all the time as well - and yes it does challenge teams to be have sound business structure. But getting new teams started, is tough, since they don't realize what FIRST is all about until you participate in it. We've made presentations to schools and they really like what we show them, but they just can't get past the initial cost. So in the end, it'll keep FIRST out of those schools that lack resources (inner city, low socioeconomics, etc..) so the great technology divide will continue to grow.

The one thing that really seemed to make a difference to many teams were the NASA grants - they're usually for 2 years (if applied for each year). Once a team were in FIRST for a couple of years, then they got it - they realize how to build it up like a business venture. That's what helped us our first few years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Anderson
The TechnoKats used the kit chassis (and gearboxes) to make a quick software development drivebase at the beginning of the build season. It directly benefited us, a 14-year veteran team. We also indirectly benefit from those rookie teams having well-built and working drivebases. It helps raise the level of performance across the board, making for a better competitive environment.

I think having a consistent set of basic building blocks is one of the important differences between FIRST and something like BattleBots. Sure, most experienced teams can do well without having things handed to them in a box, but that fosters elitism and makes it harder for newcomers.
We too used the kit chassis for prototyping - but not on real bot. I guess what I'm sying is it would be nice for FIRST to find a way to get the entry cost down so that more teams would start up. Three years ago FIRST tried a slightly different kit for Rookie teams and veteran teams. I believe that veteran teams didn't receive a pump and battery charger whereas new teams and 2nd year teams did. Perhaps they could something similar to that?

Maybe a question that could be asked is, would veteran teams be willing to receive less kit parts than rookie teams if it means lower the entry fees? Or would veteran teams be willing to subsidize part of the cost of rookie teams (assuming it's a perfect world and nobody abuses this)? Rookie teams cost = $4000, Veteran Teams = $6500?

I'm just throwing out ideas that probably have been discussed to death elsewhere in the forums.
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Last edited by Doug G : 08-10-2005 at 01:58.
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Unread 08-10-2005, 11:32
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Re: Battlebots I.Q.- A serious threat to FIRST or a half thought up cheep copy?

First, sorry I know this isn't what the forum started about, but it gave me an idea.

I like the idea that the older team help subsidize new teams, but I had another idea of my own. How many teams have signifigant amounts of cash left over at the start of the season? I know my team never did, but I would guess some teams probably do. What if any team that could afford it was asked to donate $500, $1000, or whatever they could to a Rookie Fund, which would then be disbursed between rookie teams who need it. This seems like a great form of gp.
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