2006 game hints?

[Kevin Kolodziej]

1997: cone shaped goal, round objects (innertubes), hexagonal field
1998: hexagonal goal, medium balls, hexagonal field
1999: octagonal puck, round floppies, square field
2000: triangular ramp, triangular goals, small balls, rectangular field
2001: triangular ramp (when not balanced), small and large balls, octagonal goals, rectangular field
2002: octagonal goals, soccer balls, rectangular field
2003: triangular ramp, square objects (boxes), rectangular field
2004: rectangular platforms, small and large balls, octagonal goals, rectangular field
2005: triangular objects (tetras), triangular goals, rectangular field

If someon HONESTLY sees a pattern in that, please explain it to me.

I think the Viking Death Ship has a lot more to do with this than we think...but in a very obscure way. IF it has anything to do with the Mythbusters episode, remember that their death ray was made from an octagonal array of mirrors - a shape that has been commonly used before.

Kev - who is sad to see the likelyhood of footballs and traffic cones slip away for another year.

[sciguy125]

Originally Posted by Kevin Kolodziej

If someon HONESTLY sees a pattern in that, please explain it to me.

(for all the following calculations, simply drop the decimals) Write every letter in the alphabet, then number them from 1-26. Multiply all the numbers for FIRST (6*9*18*19*20) and you get 369,360. Divide that by Dean Kamen's initials (44) and you get 8394. Subtract the year from that (ie 2005 -> 8394-2005=6389). Divide that by the sum of the sides of on the scoring objects and the field. Divide that by Kamen's initials again. The result will be a multiple of 4.

[artdutra04]

Originally Posted by sciguy125

(for all the following calculations, simply drop the decimals) Write every letter in the alphabet, then number them from 1-26. Multiply all the numbers for FIRST (6*9*18*19*20) and you get 369,360. Divide that by Dean Kamen's initials (44) and you get 8394. Subtract the year from that (ie 2005 -> 8394-2005=6389). Divide that by the sum of the sides of on the scoring objects and the field. Divide that by Kamen's initials again. The result will be a multiple of 4.

And I thought I had too much free time...

[litchfieldc]

My basis for the paper is this, if you place a liquid on the field, it would be almost impossible to clean. Paper on the other hand, can be cleaned with a vacume. The paper only came from me trying to imagine what game element would be involvoed that could limit traction, seeing as how so many people here think that is going to be one of the elements. My batons are flat idea came when I relized that it would be on of the only game objects that could be made from one piece of anything. In this case, probably pvc.



What is a speculation, but an idea not accepted by many

[Danny Diaz]

Originally Posted by artdutra04

Finally, teams may be able to get autonomous working before ship date!

Actually, I've been working on a simulation environment in LabVIEW to allow me to test autonomous code on the RC without requiring silly things like a robot or even real sensors - who needs that which you can simulate?

-Danny

[sciguy125]

Originally Posted by sciguy125

Divide that by the sum of the sides of on the scoring objects and the field...

I need to amend that to read:
"Divide that by the sum of the sides on the planar projection of the scoring objects and the field. i.e. a tetra is 3 sides, a box is 4 sides..."

Many have speculated a baton. However, per my theory, that would require a 5 or 6 sided field.

Assuming a traditional rectangular field, the scoring object would need 3, 5, 8, or 13 sides.

Assuming a hexagonal field, as apparently has been used in the past, the scoring objects would need 1, 3, 6, or 11 sides.

My prediction: for the last several years, the final number has not just been a multiple of 4, it has been a multiple of 12. That leaves us with the rectangular field and 8 sided object or hexagonal field and 6 sided object. Because of the complexity involved with building an 8 sided scoring object, I'm going with the hexagonal field with 6 sided object.

[pyroslev]

Patterns. I would almost bet money on the game resembling one of the past four years (Zone, Stack, Raise and Triple) in a major way. I would also count on there being a twist that will make jaws drop (It's dave's nature!).


Add in the fact that we are due for a game of boxes or balls.

2001 Balls and goals with ramp

2002 Balls with goals in zones

2003 Boxes and ramp

2004 Balls with platform, bar and goals

2005 Tetras and goals

It's a cycle. SOmething tells me boxes but not like were expecting.

[artdutra04]

Originally Posted by sciguy125

I need to amend that to read:
"Divide that by the sum of the sides on the planar projection of the scoring objects and the field. i.e. a tetra is 3 sides, a box is 4 sides..."

Many have speculated a baton. However, per my theory, that would require a 5 or 6 sided field.

Assuming a traditional rectangular field, the scoring object would need 3, 5, 8, or 13 sides.

Assuming a hexagonal field, as apparently has been used in the past, the scoring objects would need 1, 3, 6, or 11 sides.

My prediction: for the last several years, the final number has not just been a multiple of 4, it has been a multiple of 12. That leaves us with the rectangular field and 8 sided object or hexagonal field and 6 sided object. Because of the complexity involved with building an 8 sided scoring object, I'm going with the hexagonal field with 6 sided object.

That sounds like something from Numb3rs.

A six-sided object would be a cube or a rectuangular prism. This would not figure into the pattern of the recent FIRST games, in which even-numbered years use an odd-number-sided playing field object. This all seems pretty interesting that these patterns have been discovered, even though they may be very weird coincidences. What would the odds be that FIRST is actually following a set algorithim for determining their games each year? I'm guessing maybe infinity minus one to one against. Only in 45 days on January 7th will we really know.

[Andrew Blair]

The only real thing you can rely on in the games is the need for a good, solid drivetrain, and a good lift or equivalent device. Every year, there has been carpet (sorry water people), and there has been something needing to be put somewhere higher. Maybe FIRST will repeal that "no throwing game objects" rule this year!

[JoelP]

Maybe they'll have us use the camera, infrared, or some sonar device to find the distance to a target and we'll have to program ballistics calculations to shoot the game object into the goal...catapults anyone?

[sciguy125]

Originally Posted by artdutra04

That sounds like something from Numb3rs.

A six-sided object would be a cube or a rectuangular prism.

Actually, I was going more along the lines of those people that perform an analysis on numbers in the bible and figure out the apocalypse.

As for the object, I meant what you would get if you flatten it. A cube would be 4 sides, a tetra would be 3... So a six-sided object would be some kind of extruded hexagon.

[Ian Curtis]

With all the talk about batons and my research into last year that found many people hit the pyramid hint right on the head, could it be that we will simply see the return of PVC goals?

Last year we guessed pyramids and got pyramids missing the insides. This year we guess batons and get batons missing the insides, or pvc goals?

(Also ironically at the FLL tournament I attended last weekend there where baton twirlers selling Kettle Korn at 3 bucks for a bag about a foot tall and 4 inches in diameter raising money to go to DC...) Is this some subtle game hint?

[artdutra04]

Originally Posted by sciguy125

As for the object, I meant what you would get if you flatten it. A cube would be 4 sides, a tetra would be 3... So a six-sided object would be some kind of extruded hexagon.

Maybe there will be hexagonal mobile goals again?

All the speculation so far is about batons being used for the actual playing field object. But what if they weren't? Following FIRST's ball-nonball game pattern of the recent years, we're due for a ball game. What if the batons really represent parts of a goal? What if there is going to be really short goals this year? What if these batons would be connected to make a ladder-like goal? Or maybe a fence/barrier?

Batons are usually easily moved about and manupulated by a cheerleader or such, so would this mean that there will be all mobile goals on the field? Would this represent some sort of dynamic field element(s)? Or would there be goals that don't belong to any specific alliance color by default, but to the alliance that puts more balls into it (similar to tetra goal ownership)? Would robots be able to easily manipulate the balls, and score them into goals without a human player? Would human players somehow alter goal ownership?

For a person to be able to manipulate a baton, it takes practice and skill. Would this mean that there will be a very difficult task to do, that only a small number of teams can accomplish? Will the balls be odd shaped, like footballs? Would this mean that an arm/elevator would be practically necessary for the game?

And the speculation continues...


Just to clarify, when I said a six-sided object was a cube in my previous post, I was thinking of six faces on a cube.

[alphastryk]

Originally Posted by sciguy125

Actually, I was going more along the lines of those people that perform an analysis on numbers in the bible and figure out the apocalypse.

As for the object, I meant what you would get if you flatten it. A cube would be 4 sides, a tetra would be 3... So a six-sided object would be some kind of extruded hexagon.

maybe some sort of hexagonal tube (baton + hex)? im not sure how useful that wierd numbers theory is though...pvc tubes would make more sense as game objects...wouldnt they have infinite sides because they are circles? hmm...

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by texasdiaz

Actually, I've been working on a simulation environment in LabVIEW to allow me to test autonomous code on the RC without requiring silly things like a robot or even real sensors - who needs that which you can simulate?
-Danny

...Which you'll publish of course?? That would a a great use of LabView!


Back to speculation: IMHO the time machine was just a random remark based on the few posts above it.
The comment about batons and 'whatever's lying around the office' are significant. Just how is the question.
Also significant is the exchange, clearly planned (look at the posting times!) between a worker and a 'supervisor'. At least he doesn't have to build the 'bus shelter' - probably a good thing, too - but the 'viking death ship' (VDS) is clearly needed for next week (some kind of demo, proof of concept). It is obviously not an actual VDS, but when looked at it sure looks like something you'd name that.

What are the salient features of a VDS? Well, it is boat-like in appearance (long and narrow), maybe a sail-like object above, perhaps many openings on the sides (oars originally).

Hexagonal field would work well for alliances, and make the video easier than a wide narrow field.
An area of the field that is hidden from the view of the humans would be sooo cool, forcing more to push the CMU cam, which was disappointingly underused last year. Located in the center? Maybe a ramp to get up & in for some kind of bonus?
Also think about costs and ease of manufacture. Tetras can be cranked out quickly/easily/cheaply, as were balls, whatever they pick as the movable object, they will need a zillion in a hurry, without breaking the bank. PVC pipe sections with balls on the ends (like a barbell)?
Goals like a wastebasket?
I also like the concept of the bots resetting the field somehow, so start condition and end condition are the same.

Dave's just sitting there giggling at how way off, and how close, we all are. January 7 is coming soon, but not soon enough.

Don