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Ball Rollers

Posted by Justin Stiltner at 1/22/2001 1:33 PM EST


Student on team #388, Epsilon, from Grundy High School and NASA, American Electric Power, Town of Grundy.



Would any team that has used ball rollers (counter-rotateing shafts that pull balls into a bucket, basket, ect.) in the past share how they got the rollers to spin in oppsite directions without using 2 motors?? we dont want to use gears if we can get away with it. Also what motors did you use? Any other advice is welcome.

tnx,
Justin Stiltner
Team #388
Epsilon
Grundy Va,

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Re: Ball Rollers

Posted by Dave Lavery at 1/22/2001 3:01 PM EST


Engineer on team #116, Epsilon Delta, from Herndon High School and NASA Headquarters.


In Reply to: Ball Rollers
Posted by Justin Stiltner on 1/22/2001 1:33 PM EST:



: Would any team that has used ball rollers (counter-rotateing shafts that pull balls into a bucket, basket, ect.) in the past share how they got the rollers to spin in oppsite directions without using 2 motors?? we dont want to use gears if we can get away with it. Also what motors did you use? Any other advice is welcome.


Justin -

One of the most common, and straightforward, ways to do this is to put a pulley on each shaft, then run a belt between the pulleys - but the trick is to put the belt in a "figure-8" configuration, not just a simple loop. Then apply power to one of the shafts, and voila! The Delrin or fiberglass pulleys in the SPI catalog work great for this (part #U-PNG-xxx or U-IPD-xx), along with the green round Polycord belting (part #U-PRB-x).

Another idea that we used successfully last year was to just have one row of rollers to pick up the balls. As the rollers spun, they would push the balls against a smooth backplane. There was enough friction between the ball and the backplane (and the ball and the roller), that it would roll across the backplane as torque was induced by the roller. The ball would then be "passed" from one roller to the next, transporting it to the end of the line. The system worked very well (in fact, it was the only part of the robot that DIDN'T break during the entire season of regional and national competitions).

In both our attempts at doing this, we have used the Fisher-Price motors. But we modified the gear box so we were tapping the torque on the second output gear (with a new extended shaft, etc.) rather than the gear drive train output. This gave us enough speed on the rollers to really move the balls along (and since we were not compressing the balls very much, output torque on the rollers was not a big issue for us).

But last year we were only fooling with small balls, and didn't hvae to worry about the big ones. So, your milage may vary....

-dave lavery
Team 116


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Re: Ball Rollers

Posted by Travis Covington at 1/23/2001 1:10 AM EST


Student on team #115, MV ROBOTICS, from Monta Vista High School and Hitachi Data Systems - 3com - NASA Ames.


In Reply to: Re: Ball Rollers
Posted by Dave Lavery on 1/22/2001 3:01 PM EST:



we actually encountered the same problem...

the way we solved it was..instead of rotating the belt 180 and having it rub... we mounted the motor in the center and had 2- 90 degree rotations off the motor to the other 2 pulleys..

works great..good tension..doesnt touch or make any noise ;-)

its beutiful!!

-TC


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Re: Ball Rollers

Posted by David Bryer at 1/22/2001 8:07 PM EST


Engineer on team #5, Robocards, from Melvindale, MI and AFL (Alcoa Fujikura Ltd).


In Reply to: Ball Rollers
Posted by Justin Stiltner on 1/22/2001 1:33 PM EST:



: Would any team that has used ball rollers (counter-rotateing shafts that pull balls into a bucket, basket, ect.) in the past share how they got the rollers to spin in oppsite directions without using 2 motors?? we dont want to use gears if we can get away with it. Also what motors did you use? Any other advice is welcome.

: tnx,
: Justin Stiltner
: Team #388
: Epsilon
: Grundy Va,

A simple approach is to use two spur gears. If the gear attached to the motor spins direction A (say CW), then the second spur gear attached to the output shaft will spin the opposite direction, B (or CCW). Hope this helps.

Dave...


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Re: Ball Rollers

Posted by Dodd Stacy at 1/22/2001 11:55 PM EST


Engineer on team #95, Lebanon Robotics Team, from Lebanon High School and CRREL/CREARE.


In Reply to: Re: Ball Rollers
Posted by David Bryer on 1/22/2001 8:07 PM EST:



: : Would any team that has used ball rollers (counter-rotateing shafts that pull balls into a bucket, basket, ect.) in the past share how they got the rollers to spin in oppsite directions without using 2 motors?? we dont want to use gears if we can get away with it. Also what motors did you use? Any other advice is welcome.

: : tnx,
: : Justin Stiltner
: : Team #388
: : Epsilon
: : Grundy Va,

Take a look at the rear chain tensioning assembly on a bicycle derailleur (sp?). The chain runs zig zag around three "sprockets," if you call the little plastic wheels sprockets, too. Compare the direction of rotation of the middle sprocket in the chain tensioner with the rotation of the large sprocket up front, with the pedals on it (I don't remember the right name) - they are opposite.

You can adapt that concept to counter rotate your roller pair, using one continuous chain loop and 4 sprockets, 3 of them at one end with the center 1 of the 3 attached to the roller. Mount the other 2 so that the chain has a decent wrap angle around the roller sprocket and so that you can also use them to tension the chain.

(We also found that you can run the chain in a figure 8 like a belt if you make a sheet metal separator/guard where the chain crosses itself in the middle, run the chain pretty slack, and ignore the nasty sound it makes. And replace the sheet metal before it wears through. It's not your 100,000 mile design, but then that's not the game we're playing.)


Dodd


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OT: Foot Hazard

Posted by Dodd Stacy at 1/23/2001 12:12 AM EST


Engineer on team #95, Lebanon Robotics Team, from Lebanon High School and CRREL/CREARE.


In Reply to: Re: Ball Rollers
Posted by Dodd Stacy on 1/22/2001 11:55 PM EST:



I had posted earlier asking about the bolts on the goal protruding below the goal base, and Doyle (I believe - my connection is too slow to go back and search) pointed me at excellent photo documentation of the FIRST Kickoff goal on his team website. Sure enough, it is ugly under there.

Tonite, one of our coach/parents pointed out that a goal rolling up onto the instep of a person's foot puts those gnarley bolt ends right into a pretty important part of the human machine anatomy. We're wearing shoes up here in NH right now, but sandal time is coming soon in Orlando. Am I being ridiculous to worry about this? Does anyone else see a high probability accident waiting to happen? Any reason not to prevail on FIRST to cut the excess bolt length off?

Dodd


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Re: OT: Foot Hazard

Posted by Justin Stiltner at 1/23/2001 8:42 AM EST


Student on team #388, Epsilon, from Grundy High School and NASA, American Electric Power, Town of Grundy.


In Reply to: OT: Foot Hazard
Posted by Dodd Stacy on 1/23/2001 12:12 AM EST:



: I had posted earlier asking about the bolts on the goal protruding below the goal base, and Doyle (I believe - my connection is too slow to go back and search) pointed me at excellent photo documentation of the FIRST Kickoff goal on his team website. Sure enough, it is ugly under there.

: Tonite, one of our coach/parents pointed out that a goal rolling up onto the instep of a person's foot puts those gnarley bolt ends right into a pretty important part of the human machine anatomy. We're wearing shoes up here in NH right now, but sandal time is coming soon in Orlando. Am I being ridiculous to worry about this? Does anyone else see a high probability accident waiting to happen? Any reason not to prevail on FIRST to cut the excess bolt length off?

: Dodd

Not to complain but if you feel it is important enough to post about you need to start a topic for it. It will get seen better that way.

Justin Stiltner
Team #388
Grundy VA,

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Small Pipe

Posted by Dodd Stacy at 1/23/2001 9:27 AM EST


Engineer on team #95, Lebanon Robotics Team, from Lebanon High School and CRREL/CREARE.


In Reply to: Re: OT: Foot Hazard
Posted by Justin Stiltner on 1/23/2001 8:42 AM EST:




: Not to complain but if you feel it is important enough to post about you need to start a topic for it. It will get seen better that way.

: Justin Stiltner
: Team #388
: Grundy VA,

Thanks for the advice, Justin. I have a small problem. I live at the end of a 14.4 KBps connection to this forum. It takes more than a minute to load one page of the Chronologically Archived Forums, where I can see all posts. It takes more than five minutes to load one of the individual Forum pages, where the files are bigger, which I have to do to find an opportunity to start a new topic or thread for my post.

Consequently, I normally contribute to a running thread, which I can do as a Follow up posting directly from the Chronological Archive page. In this case, I piggybacked on an existing thread to save myself that time (work, coach, post, sleep, repeat). I attempted to indicate the post was Off Thread, OT, to minimize confusion. I would appreciate any advice you can provide on how I can better cope with my situation.

Dodd


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Re: Small Pipe

Posted by Justin Stiltner at 1/26/2001 10:19 PM EST


Student on team #388, Epsilon, from Grundy High School and NASA, American Electric Power, Town of Grundy.


In Reply to: Small Pipe
Posted by Dodd Stacy on 1/23/2001 9:27 AM EST:



:
: : Not to complain but if you feel it is important enough to post about you need to start a topic for it. It will get seen better that way.

: : Justin Stiltner
: : Team #388
: : Grundy VA,

: Thanks for the advice, Justin. I have a small problem. I live at the end of a 14.4 KBps connection to this forum. It takes more than a minute to load one page of the Chronologically Archived Forums, where I can see all posts. It takes more than five minutes to load one of the individual Forum pages, where the files are bigger, which I have to do to find an opportunity to start a new topic or thread for my post.

: Consequently, I normally contribute to a running thread, which I can do as a Follow up posting directly from the Chronological Archive page. In this case, I piggybacked on an existing thread to save myself that time (work, coach, post, sleep, repeat). I attempted to indicate the post was Off Thread, OT, to minimize confusion. I would appreciate any advice you can provide on how I can better cope with my situation.

: Dodd

Hmmmmmmmmm
You may try letting the page lode for a while then hitting the stop button. Most of the time it will load the text first and the pics last. Or you may see if you could turn the pictures off in your browser.

Justin Stiltner
Team #388
Grundy Va,

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