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Unread 12-10-2001, 12:48
Unsung FIRST Hero
Jason Morrella Jason Morrella is offline
Robotics Education and Competition
AKA: J-Mo
no team (RECF)
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1998
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 154
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Who's looking at the big picture? Here's my take...

Your comment of FIRST not looking at the big picture troubles me. Your arguments seem to be based on some incorrect information about both programs - maybe pointing out some of these differences well help:

.....FIRST tries to provide 17 regionals in 5 weeks, trying to juggle that schedule best they can to be convenient to teams and lower travel costs for teams to compete. Some events land on Easter weekend, but that is because of the 17 in 5 weeks scenarios - at least they provide 17 options for teams

.....Battlebots starts ONE SINGLE event for high school kids, has ALL YEAR to pick a date, and picks Good Friday & Easter weekend. "Big Picture"???? You want to know why they picked THE ONE weekend which would be most inconvenient for many families? Because they answer to the TV company, not the best interest of students. (and that is not a guess - I know 1st hand from those involved that the date was picked by the TV producers with no concern for holiday/religious concerns of students)

Who "loves" their teams more? Seems obvious to me...FIRST

The main point of all your arguements is that FIRST is limiting the National and not all teams can go. You argue Battlebots as an alternative - yet the SINGLE Battlebots event IS NOT OPEN TO ALL TEAMS AND WILL HAVE A LIMIT - just as FIRST has at Epcot. Only Difference - FIRST offers 17 other competitions around the country for teams to enter and reduce travel costs.

Who "loves" their teams more? Seems obvious to me...FIRST

I will answer your other statements comparing Battlebots and FIRST after each of your comments:

You say about Battlebots:
They teach kids if you win you get money so you can make a better robot. they teach a kid if you build a great robot maybe they will build a toy after it.

I say about FIRST: EXACTLY!!!!! FIRST teaches kids that if you involved your school & your community (get more support, funding, resources) you can build a better robot. They teach kids there is more to life than concentrating on TOYS & MONEY! It is better to do something important, advance your education & go to college, involve your community and try to make it better, and to make a difference in the world.

Who "loves" their teams more? Seems obvious to me...FIRST


You say about Battlebots:
You build a robot ( teaching kids about robots)

I say about FIRST:
You build a robot and A LOT MORE (teaching kids not only engineering skills, but programming, graphics animation, how to build a business model, time management, accountability, awards submissions, working with real role models & professionals involved with the kids to inspire them - not to destroy someone else, win money & get a toy.
You play the game (have THREE days - not one like Battlebots. You play many times, getting to see some results to your long & hard work. FIRST provides a National like Battlebots, but also 17 REGIONALS so teams get to play more and aren't forced into travel costs if they can't afford it)

Who "loves" their teams more? Seems obvious to me...FIRST

You say about Battlebots & FIRST:
You play the game ( If you win you get money, TV exposure and More) FIRST - You play the game ( for a trophie, medal)

I again say EXACTLY!!! FIRST says the process and the learning is what is important. Battlebots (and it seems you) say the winning, the prizes, and money are what is important.

Who "loves" their teams more? Seems obvious to me...FIRST

You say about Battlebots & FIRST:
In Battlebots you have all year to build the robot, in FIRST you have only six week to build the robot ( everybody stresses out)

I say: who is preparing kids for the real life scenarios of College and Professional life? Do kids have all year to finish a term paper - no. Do we has a adults get all year to finish any assignment or task - rarely. Which of the two is challenging kids with a more life like experience which will help them better once they are out of high school? Once again, winner - FIRST.


You say FIRST offers one weight class but that in "Battlebots
You can enter in different wieght classes (more kids can do more)"
Let me paste DIRECTLY FROM THE BATTLEBOTS WEB PAGE about their high school event: """This will be a single (1) weight class event open to Middleweight robots only."""
Only difference - the FIRST game has various engineering challenges as oppossed to just destroying your oppenent. In a FIRST game, many teams are able to build small robots (under bar), medium robots (bridge, balance), and large robots (7 foot goals). By your very standars - it is actually FIRST which gives teams & kids the ability to build various sized robots. again...

Who "loves" their teams more? Seems obvious to me...FIRST

You say Battlebots is a lot less to enter and FIRST is more expensive. You are only looking at the registration fee. That does not include the parts, the motors, the control system, the travel to Florida (while many FIRST teams have local regionals with no travel expense), the limitless parts allowed in Battlebots, etc... I challenge you to tell me how many of the successful bots at the March Battlebots High School event actually spent less than $10,000. you won't find many - so Battlebots is not less expensive than FIRST, and is actually more expensive than FIRST to the majority of teams who FIRST provides local/regional competitions.


I am sorry this is so long, but I have been watching all these posts back and forth, and have just been amazed at the amount of incorrect information these arguments are being based on. Mike - as a fellow teacher, I have the utmost respect for you and your dedication to providing a postive experience for your students. I also have the common respect to realize that sometimes we just have to agree to disagree - so this post is not meant to be disrespectful in anyway. It is just that I see many passionate, dedicated people seemingly overreacting based on emotions because they are disappointed at the new FIRST limits in Orlando (which are reality and HAD TO HAPPEN. At least FIRST killed themselves for 10 years to allow everyone in, while Battlebots isn't even trying - having limits at their 1st event)

You previously said "FIRST doesn't love us" anymore. If FIRST was in this for money and Ratings - you are right, they would hold ONE event, on a date determined by the TV company, and put all their resources into that one event so they could make money - you would be right. Instead, FIRST is so concerned about ALL schools & students getting the opportunity and about keeping travel costs down for teams - that they instead increase the amount of tournaments in the country every year (17 regionals this year).

You ask who is not looking at the big picture. I'll let each person answer that for themselves. But I can answer who IS looking at the big picture, and the winner there is CLEARLY FIRST.

For those not looking at the big picture (or at least see the big picture in different colors than myself), those more concerned about money & toys than inspiration & real life experience - maybe Battlebots does fill a niche and is a better program for them.

I haven't posted in awhile - so this is my 2 cents for the last month or so all turned in at once. Sorry about the length.

Jason
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