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Unread 10-04-2002, 15:51
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Mentor/Engineers - Robotics vs. Work Balance

This question is for team mentors and engineers: How much does robotics, particularly during the build season, push into your daily work schedule? (ie. how many hours at work a week is devoted to robotics during work hours, not including after hours time). In conjunction with this, what level of support do you see from your direct management as well as upper management and or principals.

I think this would be great information for all of us to share with our management as well as share with schools and businesses looking to start or have started a new team. Thanks!

PS I would especially like to hear from some of the older teams that have been around a while with the program being well rooted in your organization.
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Unread 11-04-2002, 10:54
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I origionally participated in FIRST in 1992 and 1993 while working as an engineer at Bose Corp. While there, my company would not allow me any time during the normal work day. I would have the students come to my office daily to design/build the robot. At that time we had the run of the place for the most part. We would typically spend 40+ hours per week working on the project. This to me was like having a second full time job.

However, due to my connections with FIRST and working with the students, I learned that I should be a teacher. I was fortunate enough to land a job teaching CAD with one of the high schools we were sponsoring (Assabet Valley).

Since then, FIRST has been integrated into to the CAD curriculum (we are a technical high school), as well as the Precision Machine Shop. Therefore, most of the time spent designing and building is done during the day. We do have regular scheduled meetings on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays where our team meets with the engineering support. These metting typically lasts 3 to 4 hours except on Saturday where the meeting will last close to 6 hours.
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Unread 11-04-2002, 12:44
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You got it right with second job

During the 6 week build time I probably spent between 4-8 hours a night including weekends for the entire 6 weeks. To make matters worse our build location is 45 minutes from where I work, further from home. Its alot of fun, but it sometimes does get into work when you think of an idea and go to the lab to try it out or see how it might work. One of our other problems is our welder leaves each day at about 2:30 so we need to meet with him before that to get things lined up. I know alot of the engineers and mentors on many teams that have little kids (Or I guess any kids) really can't spend that much time after work without it affecting home life. It would be really cool if our sponsers all realized the time commitment and accepted a fraction of the time during work hours, some do and some do not.
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Unread 11-04-2002, 13:05
Mark_lyons Mark_lyons is offline
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I am very fortunate. Our school is VERY supportive of FIRST. It is encouraged for all departments to inegrate this project into the curriculum (we have 18 different trades). The administrations goal is for us to be able to accomplish everything during the day without adding any time after school. It is a nice goal, but I do think it's unreasonable.

The commitment that Assabet Valley has made to FIRST is overwhelming. I teach CAD, and I have two very large computer labs. We have taken one of these labs and installed a FULL SIZE playing field (note to FIRST please do not make the field any bigger). Also, we have prototype lab. These are permanantly constructed IN MY CLASSROOM!

I cannot tell you how great it is to have this arraingement.

I invite any member of any FIRST team to visit what I beleive is a FIRST class school, I am sure you would leave here VERY impressed. So, if your ever in Marlboro MA, come visit us!
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Unread 11-04-2002, 15:08
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Team 157 has a great place to build and run there robot year round.

I wish I had half there space.

But what is nice is that alot of the work does get done during school hours.

We made a rule not to work on Sundays at all.

We were done on most days around 6:00pm.

The other shops that work with us know now that when Jan. comes around to be prepared to make something for the robot.

Vocational schools are great because you have all the help you need to build a robot.

We been doing this for 8 years and we have a great staff and help from local companys.

what puts the most strain on the project is the six weeks. I wish we had all year. then you would see better robots and kids learning more.
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Unread 11-04-2002, 15:15
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we too don't work on Sundays, mainly because the 6 people who worked on the robot are very religious. Which means lots of work to do all the other days. Our engineers are purely volunteers and dont get an opportunity to work on it during the day, they even have to take vacation to come to our regionals. (2b and not 2b kenny and bob if youre reading this we appreciate you sooo much.) In crunch time both the students and engineers were putting in 12 - 14 hour days for the last five days minus Sunday before shipment day. But we got it done and thats whats important.
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Unread 11-04-2002, 18:18
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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! (Sorry, trademark yell)

Yeah, I heard that the mentors from 862 are cool. And smart. And funny. And cool.

But seriously,
I estimate that I spent about 200 hours during the build phase. And remember, we didn't work on Sundays. And for the first few weeks, we didn't do much because we were disorganized. I know that our machinist spent more time than that. It's alot of work... but it's fun.

Now that we are almost through my rookie year, I could see how I will be working on FIRST throughout the whole year, with fundraising, team building, and working on new mechanism ideas for the drivetrain.

average of
weekdays - from 4pm - 9pm
saterdays - from 10am - 8pm

Not2B
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Unread 11-04-2002, 21:30
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Quote:
How much does robotics, particularly during the build season, push into your daily work schedule? ... In conjunction with this, what level of support do you see from your direct management as well as upper management and or principals.
This is a great question! I would really like to find out how some of the other organizations support FIRST (in addition to their very welcome funding).

All the way up to the highest levels of the organization, NASA has been very supportive of the FIRST program. Obviously, we have kicked in a lot of funding for teams and events. But beyond that, our top management has been very supportive by helping to organize volunteers for regionals, spreading the word about FIRST through their organizations, advocating and advertising the teams within their organizations to other potential sponsors, etc. (here are two hints to gain internal support for FIRST: 1) if you have a company exec who is sitting on the fence, sign them up to be a judge at a regional competition - they will get a full dose of the best of FIRST while requiring just two days of their time, and they will have a lot of fun and most likely become very supportive; 2) if your company sponsors more than one team, setting up a little intra-company friendly rivalry between the teams can make for some added fun and give the executives a little something to brag about at the next directors meeting [this works particularly well if the teams are sponsored by different divisions of the company/agency] The NASA Center Directors are usually a lot more interested in finding out if "their" teams beat the teams from the other NASA centers than they are in finding our if "their" teams won the competitions!).

At the level of an individual team, each NASA-sponsored team has the flexibility to set up arrangements to get the right mix of resources they need. Each team does it a little different. This is one example:

When we first started Team 116, the agreement I had with NASA was that they would fund the team, cover my travel costs, and let me participate, as long as it did not interfere with my "real job." I figured that was a reasonable trade. We were lucky enough that first year to find three other engineers willing to give up their evenings and weekends to participate, and a great bunch of students who would do the same.

Ever since then, our pattern has been to meet 7:00-10:00pm three nights a week, then up to 16 hours over the weekend. The "other" weeknights are used as "overflow" nights, to catch up on some work if we are behind (and it always seems like we are behind). NASA Headquarters is a typical office building, without a shop or any production facilities; so all work is done in the small shop that we built at the school. We get tossed out of the school at 10:00 when it closes, so some evenings we migrate to my garage to continue work until late in the evening (or morning, as the case may be).

Since that first year, as the program has grown and our involvement has increased, NASA has been very supportive and flexible about letting me put in the hours that are necessary. But I have always participated (at my insistence) under the condition that it not interfere with my real job. One thing that we have tried to do is show the people at work how our participation adds to our direct job performance. For instance, rather than focusing on the hours away from the office that the team requires, I talk about the great summer interns that we have brought in each year (that have all sourced from the team), and how much they have contributed to our primary mission.

-dave
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Unread 12-04-2002, 09:09
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I have no idea about the after school hours I spend. The steering committee we formed to get things going met one night a week since last July for example. During the pre-build time we met with students pretty regularly after school. And forget the time we spent after school and week ends during build time.
During the school day I probably spend an average of 5 hours a week from January to Nationals. A lot of that is working logistical issues. We have someone at our school who has been doing major parts of that and set up all our transportation. She also handles fundraising. Huge number of hours during the regular work day for all of that. All in all we have three teachers and two staff members who have been helping with FIRST on school time. This represents a major commitment on the part of the school. Plus the money we spent from the school budget. The Principal and President of the school have both been VERY supportive.
Several of the engineers spent a lot of work time on FIRST as well. Some of them even took vacation time so that they could work full time during the initial design period. They work for a non-profit who could not give them time off with pay for the regional or Florida so they are using vacation time. They have been great!
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Unread 13-04-2002, 11:54
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I don't know if I qualify for this but here goes...
I do not work for the sponsoring company (Motorola) but I am an engineer for a public TV station in Chicago. I know they are tired of me talking up FIRST at work, but they have been good about granting my requests for using comp time and vacation days during the season. Additionally, I get to use e-mail and net access to write to these forums and others and use some of our resources to help the team. My hours do not come close to some of the hours that Motorola engineers commit but during the season, I would estimate an average of 20 hours a week. We are fortunate to have some very dedicated people on our team, not all teachers or engineers that help this program work. I have been with this team for five years and I know that some of the Motorola people and teachers have been in longer than that.
Our program is an all year program for students, who receive school credit for their involvement. They are required to attend a once a week class in the fall taught by Motorola employees (and myself) and participate in at least one of the fall activities; CDI, Lego League, or our own mini robot competition. And they must be active throughout the year as attendance and participation affect their grade.
Hope this helps.
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Unread 15-04-2002, 15:56
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Talking

How much time- 2 to 3 times a week during the 6 weeks period I'm up until 3AM in the morning working on my computer doing FIRST work, simulations, drawing, documentations, Powerpoint presentations, etc..... And usually 4-6 hours on Saturday (and that's after 4 hours of work). I brought dozens of donuts, boxes of pizza and bags candies to keep them working. Was it worth it????? Yip.

Message to the students-
Please look at your team's mentors, engineers, and teachers that have helped your team this year (and next year). A lot of their time is of their own. Where am I going with this?
I was a sub-judge this year and I didn't see many recommendations for the WOODIE FLOWERS AWARD nominations. Do write those essays and recommend those great mentors, engineers, teachers and PARENT too!


My 2 cents.
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Unread 16-04-2002, 01:22
SteveB SteveB is offline
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Cool

I have spent the past three years supporting the Monta Vista Robotics Team in many aspects. It started with helping on the business side of the team. Mostly helping with travel and expenses. I tried to keep out of the students way as much as possible during the actual construction phase but I have to tinker to keep my sanity sometimes. Prior to Kick Off I’d say I’d spend about 5 – 10 hours a week in either meetings, doing research, or just get things organized. After Kick Off I’d spend about 30 – 40 hours a week all after my normal work hours.

I do have an advantage in that I work for a very progressive law firm in Silicon Valley. Venture Law Group specializes in working with emerging companies mostly involved with high tech or life sciences. We understand the value of a good education and helping young engineers become successful. I am the Vice President of Technology and I have a staff that supports my coming to work very early and leaving for my other job (FIRST robotics) around 3:00 during build season. This year due to a series of events with the some of the teams more veteran members I spent about 60 hours a week helping build this years machine. I have to say that my wife does get a little upset with the amount of hours I spend and her comments of “you don’t even have a student on the team this year” only goes so far. She just completed the software programming of the worlds smallest chemical laboratory robot. Cool stuff! She knows that the future is in our youth.

There are many times that I look back and can honestly say I think that I learn more than the students. How many hours do I spend? Not enough, because I want to do this full time 100 plus hours a week. Work is easy when you have a passion for what you do. It’s a pleasure when you enjoy what you are doing. And work does not have to be a four letter word. If you look beyond mediocrity, don’t accept average, and strive to do the best that you possibly can do. It won’t feel like work either. Isn’t that why this is so much fun?

Funny my new aspiration and goal is to teach robotics to high school students.

Hours per week during build 2002:
50 hours at the regular job
50 hours with robotics
68 hours to sleep, clean house, and talk with my family (not much sleep I guess)

Hours per week non build 2001:
5 hours meeting
5 hours travel planning
5 – 10 hours just hanging out with the team


Good luck and hope to see you all in Orlando


Steve B
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Unread 16-04-2002, 09:01
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Rich Wong Rich Wong is offline
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WOW.
I quote one of my students, " Dude... man... You are awesome!
And I meant it.

You have my vote.

Unfortunately I can't be at the Nationals this due to
family and work.

Best wishes to all you wild & crazy mentors.
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Unread 16-04-2002, 12:05
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We get good support from my company. I cannot however let my regular work slide. Although the time I spend during normal work hours is not much, I do some emailing and purusing of the BB's. I also do some printing and copying as needed. I do get a chance to mentor over the phone some, all in all I'd say about 4 or 5 hours a week during normal hours, although this time usually gets made up. During the building season I probably spend 5 hours a day 4 days a week and then 10 on Saturday and sometimes we meet on Sunday so somewhere between 30 to 50 hours spent on FIRST. Off season I probably spend ~ 10 hours a week. the time away from family does impact but I have a very understanding wife and younger son, (future FIRSTer). All the time away from work to help the team is done with my vacation time right now I average about 12 days of vacation a year for FIRST.
I would not volunteer my time if #1 I wasn't enjoying it (I agree I get as much out of it as the students) #2 I didn't see it as being worthwhile, #3 I do believe that FIRST is having an impact on this generation.
We have two other mentors that put in about the same amount of time as I and several others that put in less.

See ya'll at nats, good luck and stay safe
KY
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