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Unread 05-12-2002, 17:25
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Also to probe thta Disney does care about FIRST is the fact that they gave sponsorships to about 5 NEW teams this year. SO next time you say they don't care think about that.
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Unread 05-12-2002, 17:29
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I said Downtown Disney, not Pleasure Island. Kemah has restaurants and shopping and stuff. For those that are interested:

http://www.kemahboardwalk.com/
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Unread 05-12-2002, 17:29
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hmm.....again i find myself listening to an arguement that will not be one.....its like obtaining peace in Isreal....there are always going to be people for it and against it....but no matter what the 2003 National Competition will still be held in the Reliant Center in Houston Texas....Nowhere else....regardless of who can hold more or what is more convienient....this will not change so stop arguing about it....

Adapt, Overcome, Conquer...


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Unread 05-12-2002, 17:36
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Quote:
Originally posted by purplehaze357
but no matter what the 2003 National Competition will still be held in the Reliant Center in Houston Texas....Nowhere else....

Adapt, Overcome, Conquer...
*claps*

Speculating about where, why/why not, gets us nowhere...
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Unread 05-12-2002, 17:42
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Question Are you going to a National Robotics Competition or on Vacation?

Sounds to me like alot of people were attending the Nationals for the wrong reason... not for the competition but to see WDW.

I think while Houston will be a change it will be a great venue, possibly seperating the wheat (those there to compete and learn) from the chaff (those who are more worried about what rides there are)so to speak.

The level of competition and caliber of attendees will continue to rise- this change while difficult will be great for FIRST.

Looking forward to seeing all the competitors in Houston.
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Unread 05-12-2002, 17:56
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Re: Are you going to a National Robotics Competition or on Vacation?

Quote:
Originally posted by Don Knight
Sounds to me like alot of people were attending the Nationals for the wrong reason... not for the competition but to see WDW.

I think while Houston will be a change it will be a great venue, possibly seperating the wheat (those there to compete and learn) from the chaff (those who are more worried about what rides there are)so to speak.
Bingo!!

Another positive to Houston: No disney distractions..

Championship is in Houston.

Get over it.

If you don't like it, then don't go.
-------------------------------------
I'm going...
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Unread 05-12-2002, 18:13
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Houston, Texas From Lubbock, Texas

Whenever people make comments like about a city where I lived in most of my life and Love to live, I just have to add to the arguement.

First of all to be correct on all of this Houston does have a very good Metro bus system that has been very well tested for events many times the size of a FIRST competion.

When the Houston Astros Moved to Enron/Astros Field in downtown Houson, parking was a big problem. There was no paking lot the size of the one that they have at Reliant park and many there were many of them spred out all over the downtown area. The Ballpark at Union Station's capaicty was over 42,000 over twice the size of the the Nationals competiton. The anwser to the problem. Houson Metro busses pick up locations were set up all over the downtown and one main central bus station was set. Considerng how often baseball teams play the system was very well tested. It usually takes 20 to 30 mins to clear out the area after the baseball game ends.

Now events in the Reliant Park area. Every year they hold the Houston Livestock show and Rodeo. This lasts for several weeks and every night the Dome was filled to capacity. Here again is where Metro busses come in. Parking was limited because the parking lot was filled with the carnival that they have, rodeo facilites that they set up. Metro busses would run shuttle routes to the event site to places all over Houson. Again thigns ran very smothly.

One big differnce between these is that most of these shuttle busses ran these people to there cars and once they got to their cars. They got onto the road adding more congeston to the already crouded roads. Would it be much of a problem. A little, deal is that Relaint Park was built next to Loop 610 wich I beleive is a 12 or 10 lane freeway at that part. Once people got to their cars. they got on the freeway and they were on their way.

FIRST is different, most of the busses will be transproting to hotels and most of the 20,000 people wont be driving their own cars. So that is going to elieviate alot of the congestion problems as some people invision.

Remeber Houston is the 4th largest city in the Nation. I think it does have just a few more Metro busses than Disney has transport busses. Houston isnt really that overcrouded city on the brim of bursting as some people think it is.

I dont think food will be a problem. I heard somewhere that people in Houson eat out more than any other city in the US. That also may be a big contributing factor to Houston bieng the "fattest" city in the US. Houston has sooo many great resturants. Anything with "papa" in its name is usually pretty good(there is a Papasitos on the freeway right next to the Astro complexes), anything owned by Tillman Feritita, Texas Tech Grad and the Landrys chain, Aquarium resturants, Rainforest Cafes, Joes Crabshacks, Willie G's and Kemah Boardwalk owner, is usually pretty good but expensive, usually the places on Richmond Avene are pretty good but alittle of a drive from the event site, its also a good place for after hours entertainment like 18 and up bars and dance clubs, I can see it now FIRST robotics takes over the Hurricane Hut(Yeah right, that just sounds funny), that would probably be like the 2000 Nationals Wrap party(118 stories that will never leave Florida :-x ). For those of you who cant stand the stadium food, there is a McDonalds across the freeway from Relaint Park and right next to Astroworld.

I know these places are harder to get to without a car. But many of these places will deliver to large events and the great food is here. Also the transpotation is here but it will take some getting use to.

I know people fear change as Dean does point out in his interviews about his Segway, but you guys need to try it before you start to judge. I too was skeptical that a Houston would be as good a place to hold it than Florida but I do think thigns will be fine. Really FIRST is supposed to be about the people not Disney and I think that if its really about that, then you could take away Disney and it would be just the same. Maybe now people can focus more on whats really important, like Dean says, the people.

Finally I would like welcome you all to Houston, we are very honored to host Nationals. Cant wait to see you guys there.

Chris
One of the two radio toting, Leatherman carrying, webpage designing, EE majoring, FIRST junkies on 118's college student Alumni team.

10/18/02

Last edited by 118 Tech : 06-12-2002 at 00:25.
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Unread 05-12-2002, 18:20
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Re: Are you going to a National Robotics Competition or on Vacation?

Quote:
Originally posted by Don Knight
Sounds to me like alot of people were attending the Nationals for the wrong reason... not for the competition but to see WDW.
Please see FIRST and Success: A Question of Defintion. Thanks.

I went to Nationals to see Walt Disney World. It was the vacation I owed to myself after working long, hard hours for well over 6 weeks. I can't speak for others, but I doubt I'm entirely alone. Having the Championship be there was just an additional benefit.

Now, onto bigger fish . . .

Houston is a major metropolitan area. It can handle an influx of 20,000 people. There is no question of this. There are more than adequate hotel rooms.

We are competing in a large arena and convention center-style complex. They are experienced and equipped to handle large events. This is why FIRST chose Houston and not Oconomowoc, WI. () Getting teams to and from the competition, organizing and putting on the show, and holding a first-class event are givens. Astroworld isn't the greatest theme park on Earth. It's not even close, really, but it is entertainment. If I were in Houston, I wouldn't skip Astroworld, but now I must decide if Astroworld + FIRST is the killer combination of vacation goodness that Walt Disney World + FIRST was. For me, Walt Disney World won't be the same without FIRST and FIRST won't be the same without Walt Disney World. It may, however, be just as good.

I envisage that transportation to other area attractions may be difficult. I don't know to what extent Houston has public transportation nor how convenient it may be. The Astrodome complex's proximity to I-610 indicates to me that's reasonably far from the city center, and thus walking doesn't seem to be an adequate option.

I worry about food some. Epcot provided many varied and unique eating opportunities. I can't live off Stadium food for a day, let alone three. I echo that sentiment wholeheartedly.
Six Flags' food isn't something to write home about.

Disney's 'Event Fee' was in no way unfair, exploitative or manipulative. It was paid by everyone. It was necessary. Last year's packages were cheaper than in previous years, even, if I recall correctly. I do not want to go into this again in detail. I've already made several lengthy posts that explain, item by item, how Disney arrives at their pricing.

The event will be top-notch. I have no doubts about that. FIRST puts on a good show. But, being part of an even-numbered team, I'm viewing this from what may be a unique perspective among many of the posters in this thread. Our team isn't banking on qualifying for the Championship, as we value our experience moreso than our victory, and we're glad to be fortunate enough to attend three regionals. So, due to that, I am decided whether or not to attend the Championship as a spectator. So, right now, I'm exactly what FIRST is looking for - and I'm less than impressed. There's not enough in it for me just yet, and I'm already in love with FIRST. In Houston, barring something amazing, how many people is FIRST really attracting to come see their show? There's no vacation destination in Houston. There's very little that will draw a family from half-way across the country. What is FIRST doing to make itself more palatable to the masses? As a considerably biased spectator, I think they could do more.

I think the competition will be as exciting as ever. I don't know if the trip will be.

Now - has anyone called Continental Airlines yet to see exactly what sort of airfare rates they're holding for us? Again, I am pleased to see that as an individual traveller, these rates are available to me. That, despite everything else, is an incentive to get me there.
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Unread 05-12-2002, 18:35
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Re: Re: RE: Thanks for calling me a complete moron.

Quote:
Originally posted by JosephM
Thanks Dave. I know my spelling is VERY bad, but sorry again everyone. Ditto for my math. Just want to also say this: I post something that disagrees with something everyone else belives. I post and try to explain things. And all I get is more headache.
Joseph –

Sorry, that was a “cheep” shot, and inappropriate. I apologize.

But I admit to getting very frustrated watching this whole thread stream by (Brandon – when was the last time a thread grew THIS FAST?). It seems that some people are absolutely committed to finding the grey lining inside every silver cloud, and it just gets tiring after a while.

Last time I checked, I thought people were trying to go to the FIRST National Competition for the COMPETITION, not for the theme parks, shopping malls, local restaurants, etc. Almost all of the discussion on this thread has focused on the secondary, or even tertiary, aspects of what happens at the competitions. Precious little has been discussed about how well the competition itself will run in the new venue.

FIRST, the sponsors, contributors, engineers, and supporting organizations are all putting an awful lot of time, effort and money into this program (and yes, I know that the students do too). Every one of them has had to make at least one argument (and sometimes many, many arguments) with their upper management that the program and teams should be supported, because it is a valuable and (in one fashion or another) brings an eventual return on the investment. Those efforts are severely challenged when we find out that students are more interested in the “vacation” aspects of the trips to the competitions than they are in the competition itself.

You guys want to get all huffy and indignant that you don’t get to go to Disney this year and have to “settle” with going to Houston? Fine. Keep that attitude when you stand up in front of your next board meeting with your sponsor(s) - like Infineon/Invensys or NASA/SUNY Stony Brook - and ask for several thousands of dollars from them to fund your trips to the competition. Then try and provide an honest answer when they ask why in the world they should spent corporate dollars to fund your participation in a program that sends you on a trip to an amusement park.

Additionally, I can virtually guarantee that no one on this thread knows all the details of the discussions, arguments, negotiations, and deal-making/breaking that FIRST went through leading up to their decision to move the competition. We can spend months second-guessing that decision. But the simple fact is, the decision has been made, for whatever reason, and the teams only have one choice to make: to attend or not. You can either spend lots of energy complaining about it and whining about how you don’t like the bus system or the theme park across the road or the food, etc., or you can try to figure out how to make a positive experience from the whole thing.

Maybe it is only me, but I think some serious attitude adjustment is in order here.

Flame off.

-dave (gets down off soapbox)

Last edited by dlavery : 05-12-2002 at 18:56.
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Unread 05-12-2002, 18:49
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I agree with purplehaze357 -

FIRST is not about the location, or the rides, or the entertainment. It is about the people, we are FIRST, we will make what we want of it.

So lets all go to houston and have a "hell of a time"
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Unread 05-12-2002, 18:52
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Rates

Any word on hotel or airline fairs? Also, is Six Flags free for FIRSTers?
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Unread 05-12-2002, 19:03
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Re: Re: Are you going to a National Robotics Competition or on Vacation?

Quote:
Originally posted by M. Krass


Now - has anyone called Continental Airlines yet to see exactly what sort of airfare rates they're holding for us?
Our rookie called and said she was so disappointed that it was only 10% off. She did give them the FIRST #'s, and asked if they were sure that was the discount for FIRST. They said yes. She didn't tell me prices.
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Unread 05-12-2002, 19:11
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Re: Re: Re: RE: Thanks for calling me a complete moron.

Quote:
Originally posted by dlavery


Maybe it is only me, but I think some serious attitude adjustment is in order here.

Ahhh it's definately not only you Dave, I never made it to Epcot last year at the Nationals because I was there number 1 to support the team and number 2 to see the fantastic work of every other team out there. We already noticed this year that since we are an even team and the trip isn't automatic some of the dead weight has disappeared (BOTH students and engineers) and I say FINALLY! The people that were looking for a free trip didn't deserve it, the people that really wanted to be there for the reasons I think FIRST stands for really could care less if the roller coasters aren't the best, that's pretty far down on the list of concerns as it should be.

There is still allot of time left before the event, I hope some of the people out there would appreciate the chance to even go to a Nationals event a little more. I can't even tell you how many teams I know of that only wished they had a sponser, or better yet the money to go to Nationals where ever it is. This year we will start helping 3 more teams that had sponsers go out of business or not have the extra budget to support a team. NONE of those students are complaining that Nationals has moved I assure you.

If we win a reigonal (crosses fingers) and are able to go, I will be proud to visit Texas (Nicer weather & less clouds than Detroit)and I will enjoy the event no matter what happens. Every team should also.
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Unread 05-12-2002, 19:15
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Re: Re: Are you going to a National Robotics Competition or on Vacation?

Quote:
Originally posted by M. Krass
There's very little that will draw a family from half-way across the country.
1. I wish you could convince my parents of this.
2. I will be driving 1604 miles, one way, to arrive to the Astrodome.
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Unread 05-12-2002, 19:42
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Re: Re: Re: RE: Thanks for calling me a complete moron.

Quote:
Originally posted by dlavery


Additionally, I can virtually guarantee that no one on this thread knows all the details of the discussions, arguments, negotiations, and deal-making/breaking that FIRST went through leading up to their decision to move the competition. We can spend months second-guessing that decision. But the simple fact is, the decision has been made, for whatever reason, and the teams only have one choice to make: to attend or not. You can either spend lots of energy complaining about it and whining about how you don’t like the bus system or the theme park across the road or the food, etc., or you can try to figure out how to make a positive experience from the whole thing.

Maybe it is only me, but I think some serious attitude adjustment is in order here.

Flame off.

-dave (gets down off soapbox)

Well said, Dave and Matt.

While I agree that Disney's parks are great places for vacation, and its fun and relaxing for teams and FIRST participants to visit them and unwind, I still have to say the Championship event is the most important thing out of the whole trip. Some of the most important value of going to the championship event are:

Competing with major teams from around the country under the same roof.
Meet all the other enthusiastic FIRST-a-holic and realize we are all in this together.
Have a chance to shoot for the Champion title.


I still remember when Joe Ross posted his little hoax, everyone was so worried that there wasn't going to be a Championship event at all. Not because there won't be rides at Disney, but because there won't be the competition.

For those of you out there who are going to the Championship Event for rides, I suggest you book your trip to Disney again just so you won't be "disappointed" next year. As far as I knows, Disney is still open for everyone to go. If you aren't interested in the competition itself, by all means make yourself happy and go to whereever you want. I am not being sarcastic or anything... I really do believe if you want to do something bad enough, you can really make it happen.

Mean while, the rest of us are going to go to Houston and check out what the Championship Event will be like. None of us will know what the event will be like until we go there. Mean while, you cannot deny the possibility that you might have fun there.

I can't say that there won't be changes at the event this year... I know for certain that it will be different. But it is still going to be one of the most valuable experience and FIRSTers could have. A lot of teams couldn't go to the Championship event due to money, or the distance, but the ones who does, they always came back talking about how much of a great time they had at the competition.

For those of you who thinks that Disney World is a great place for FIRST, I agree with you, and so do a lot more people. FIRST probably tried everything they can to get the Championship event back to Disney, but it just didn't work out. Houston must be the next best thing. Frankly, I am very thankful that FIRST tried so hard to make sure we HAVE a championship event this year.

And hey, why the negative attitude? There are different way to deal with changes, you can accept it and try to see what good things might come out of changes, or you can reject it and keep on thinking how the past is so good. For me, I am going to look forward to next year's Championship event, and try my best to go.

And remember, without FIRST, those 20,000 people would've have gone to Disney in the first place.
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