Annual Thread: Whats this years game going to be?

[srawls]

I doubt FIRST would have robots play dodge ball (but I could be eating those words in a few weeks!). If the projectile motion means throwing balls into goals, then there is absolutely no need to throw them in very quickly. In fact, that would be detrimental to scoring (just think ... do basketball players beam the ball into the hoop, or do they gently toss it in?). So, assuming some sort of goal that the balls must be thrown in, there is no need for a closed field.

Stephen

[Johca_Gaorl]

True true, I just tend to think of speeds that are very fast, cause it's fun that way

[Gadget470]

Much like some of the ball shooters last year.

33 Comes to mind, they could shoot the balls up to about 6 feet with a pretty decent arch to it or they could shoot it about 3 feet with a high arc. depending on their alignment to the goal.

I don't think I saw any team that would shoot the ball horizontally in effort to split the PVC, would be too inefficiant and impossible from a range over 6 feet or so.

[Mongoose]

"y = ax^2 + bx + c," he said solemnly, before adding with a chuckle, "Just don't ask me about the rumors about the gerbils and the thousand pounds of Jello."

Aha! That means we're supposed to make herding robots which will herd a flock of gerbils into a pen containing a thousand pounds of Jello of which the shape is modeled by ax^2 + bx +c, and the first team to get their flock of gerbils to eat all the Jello wins!

[team222badbrad]

I want to who was spreading the rumors????????

If anybody has anything to say about this years game they had better get their ideas posted... exactly 14 days left till kickoff

[Ian Mathew]

Originally posted by Johca_Gaorl
Well they could be thrown, but as you said, they weren't really. And they probably weren't being thrown very quickly correct? I'm thinking projectiles like playing dodge-ball with the robots (that would be fun!) so that's where the closed field comes in in my thinking.

Dodgeball with robots would be fun But I don't see them doing that. I think they want to steer away from Battlebot-type competition. I think there will be bumping and competing with force, but I doubt there will be projectiles that the robots are supposed to throw at eachother, or an objective to make your opponents robot a heaping pile of srcap in the middle of the floor.

Also, the floor is probably carpet, but hopefully a carpet that won't snag as easily.

[Gadget470]

I think that Dodgeball style is out of the question. To hazordous. FIRST has never been about smashing something people have spent a lot of work on. On the hazordous part, the field would have to be made to have no holes the size of the ball so as to prevent injury from the balls. (There is currently not because any launching of balls has not been a fast, horizontal launch that could injure. The launcher that shot about 30 ft at Kickoff last year had a high arch thus being slower and more noticeable by the crowd.)

Last year's inspection I assume had checked for fast, powerful, horizontal launching mechanisms for safety reasons.

Besides that, if you got an intentionally busted peice of your machine, you'd be angry. Something that you worked your butt off on getting creamed because some driver is ticking sucks. (It happened to 247 last year)

- I know which team did it, but I won't say.. At Great Lakes Regional, they was attempting to push our telescoping tether out of scoring position, after they did they rammed full speed bending it to become unfixable material. Luckily, our engineers had made replacement pieces for it and brought it with them to the pits. About 5 or 6 of us had to disassemble and rebuild the arm before our next competition (which was in roughly an hour). We got it done and were exhausted because it was a 2 hour process crammed into about 45 minutes. For the rest of that competition, and later in the Canadian Regional we hated the team that did it to us, because it was an obviously malicious act.

-- back to subject --

If FIRST were to become a malicious-based competition I think a lot of kids would not get the benefits they do now. Sure, hands-on engineering skills, but not that good ol "Co-opertition" that hides it's real value.

[dlavery]

Originally posted by Gadget470
I think that Dodgeball style is out of the question. To hazardous. FIRST has never been about smashing something people have spent a lot of work on.

You must not have been around for the competition in 1997 and prior years. Anyone else remember the famous "Rule T-5" which not only allowed, but encouraged, flipping over opposing robots during matches? For several years, tossing robots was an expected part of the game. Dean's and Woodie's speeches during the kick-off each year included the warning "build 'em robust, because there will be 'vigorous interactions' with other robots" (their polite way of saying "your robot may get thrown on it's head"). During a discussion with Dean, he said "if a robot gets damaged when it is turned over, then someone didn't do their homework and make a rugged enough machine."

Eventually, this rule was changed as the robots became larger and more energy was involved in throwing the machines around, and thus the risk of accidents became greater.

FIRST has evolved and changed a lot over the years. Folks should be careful when making absolute statements like "FIRST has always done..." or "they have never done..." About the only thing that has been constant is the amount of change from one year to the next, the unpredictability of the game and rules, and the deviousness of Dean's imagination when it is time to create the game!

-dave

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Y = AX^2 + BX + C

[DaBruteForceGuy]

Has anybody suggested that maybe he was merely the ongoing work of a mechanical genius who said something allowede by accident, as he contemplated the world???

[Adam Y.]

Errr how can dodgeball be dangerous???? I mean we play it as humans and don't really get hurt. Unless I'm playing then I usually end up breaking my glasses. The only way the robots could break playing dodgeball is if we play with medicine balls. First can always use foam balls which someone also spread a rumor about being used next year(I can't keep track of all these rumor topics) which can't hurt anyone even if they are flying hard. I personally want to send those balls flying. I tried to get my team to try that last year but my idea was poorly designed. If I can build it correctly this year then we will have balls flying all over the place.

[Johca_Gaorl]

Originally posted by wysiswyg
Errr how can dodgeball be dangerous???? I mean we play it as humans and don't really get hurt.

Yah, but what's a human's limit on throwing a dodgeball? 25-30mph (and that's probably being nice) We could easily build robots that can throw them in excess of 100mph

[Moshingkow]

mmmmm speeed. im already thinkin up a killer pneumatic rail gun with dual stage pistons and bosch tracks. aaaauuaaguhauaguahag :drools upon self: 100 mph? set up your pneumatics right, these babys can go faster then bullets. (but will they be to spec? meh....)

[Madison]

Originally posted by Johca_Gaorl
Yah, but what's a human's limit on throwing a dodgeball? 25-30mph (and that's probably being nice) We could easily build robots that can throw them in excess of 100mph

I won't say it can't be done, because I know there's got to be someone else out there like me who'll do it just to prove it possible. . .

but, I'd be impressed. Very, very impressed. Scared, too.

Now - in the history of FIRST, has anyone successfully guessed what the game is?

[srawls]

Originally posted by Johca_Gaorl
Yah, but what's a human's limit on throwing a dodgeball? 25-30mph (and that's probably being nice) We could easily build robots that can throw them in excess of 100mph

I'd definately go with M. Krass on this one ... I can't see how we can easily build a robot that can throw a soccor ball in excess of 100mph!! Not with the kit of parts from FIRST anyway. Now, I won't say it can't be done either, but I sure don't see it being done easily.

But if (and I do doubt it) we play dodge ball, there will certainly be safety rules. For instance, if beaming a ball in excess of 100 mph will damage the playing field, or possibly cause an injury, it won't be allowed. Just because something could be done doesn't mean it will be, or that it will be allowed. Dodgeball doesn't have to be dangerous. I personally don't see a graciously-professional FIRST team building a robot that is a hazardous to others.

Stephen

[Wayne C.]

Something to be worried about regarding fast moving soccer balls is their effect on computers and scorekeepers at the judges table. It was a problem this past year.

What would be fun however is a field with nerf ball cannons along the sides where randomly chosen observers from the crowd get to shoot nerf balls at the robots and either help or hinder them. It would certainly make the game more interesting for the viewers since they would be a part of it and never know if they were going to be picked until the last minute.

Then of course the math formula everyone is assuming is about projectile motion might be the formaula for the curvature of a field surface.....

might be the shape of half a football...

or a half pipe shaped field.....

or a pedestal with curved sides ......

or a conical pit or goal where the ball at the bottom gets the highest points....