Go to Post No one said that this would be easy. And if they did, they were obviously refering to a little red button from Staples and not to FIRST. - artdutra04 [more]
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  #16   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-06-2001, 19:05
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Re: No way.

Quote:
Originally posted by jOelster
I don't believe in limitation. The nationals was created so all FIRST team's who could afford to attend, could come together and enjoy the game, together.

If the FIRST Nationals become too large for that parking lot, then the venue could always be re-located.
...well put. my thoughts exactly
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Unread 08-06-2001, 21:22
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I don't think it's the parking lot size we're maxing out. Now, this is just my opinion, but I don't think they can get larger portable stands. And simply putting more seats on the floor won't work either because there's a limit to how far out seats on the floor can go. I think that's the real problem. And we need all those seats for opening/closing ceremonies. I also think the pit size is getting a tad ridiculous but that could easily be solved by multiple pit tents (where does Disney rent this stuff from anyway or do they own it?).

Matt
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Unread 09-06-2001, 00:40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Matt Leese
(where does Disney rent this stuff from anyway or do they own it?).
Why, are you throwing a big party?

I cringe at the thought of merely expanding the seating at Einstein without some drastic changes to its layout. Trying to watch matches from the stands was impossible because the robots looked like matchbox cars. The floor seating wasn't much better. About the only good place to watch matches in Einstein was the pit in front. Even there, it was difficult to see unless you were in the front.

If FIRST wants people to watch the elims & finals, they need to fix the seating & viewing problems on Einstein. They may have to switch to seating that resembles a stadium instead of a theater. From the stands on Einstein, it was difficult to discern the robots, but from the upper sections in a good stadium, it's possible to see a hockey puck on the ice.

btw, I heard that Disney is basically maxed out at ~300 teams.

Mike
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Unread 09-06-2001, 18:39
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I feel that teams should only go to the Nats if they participated in a regional. We were hurt in Fla. by teams that had no idea what their robot could do and wanted to try out ideas. I don't feel that was fair.
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Unread 09-06-2001, 18:54
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Question Not Fair?

Quote:
Originally posted by ws6666
I feel that teams should only go to the Nats if they participated in a regional.
I'm not trying to offend you but...

There are some teams out there that can't afford to go to a regional if they go to the nationals. Although we're not one of those teams, teams with low resources should be able to chose to go to the Nationals or a Regional. Other teams may choose to go to just a Regional and not the Nationals. It should be their choice.

Quote:
We were hurt in Fla. by teams that had no idea what their robot could do and wanted to try out ideas. I don't feel that was fair.
Teams with little experience may choose to do stuff that vetrans don't agree with. It's all part of learning.
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Unread 11-06-2001, 09:16
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Post A Bit of Analysis

OK, After reading all the posts thus far I have a bit to say. I want to reply to what a few people have posted. To Bill, I agree with you that that time is needed to arange a trip. You can't just throw something together at the last minute, especially when you have a large team (which seems to be very common among teams that have been around awhile). To Joe, getting T.V. coverage is important but think about this. If FIRST starts to cater to T.V. the crews will take up hotel space and other space that could be used by another team. Also, having an invitational nats the way you described sounds like a country club where only the important need apply. I don't mean to sound snotty, but that's just the way it sounded to me (possibly because of where I live and the people who live here) Frank, usin the same site for multiple events could tie it up for even longer. If it takes a few weeks, like yoy said, to set up the event for three days of use what about the time in between events? Could be a week or more. My idea is one that I read on the old forum. Someone suggested moving the competition to Texas. Everything there is bigger and they are building bigger arenas as I type. Or if FIRST wants to keep Disney involved what about California? I've never been there so I don't know if space-wise this is a feasable idea. In case you haven't figured it out I'm really against making nats smaller. One thing that I'll miss if nats is smaller is the web hug. Smaller nats would kinda leave this place a little bit different for people who want to meet the people they've been sharing ideas with on-line. Another thing the people who want to down size nats are forgetting is the whole idea of FIRST. It is supposd to be a way to get multitudes of people together to share ideas. It also helps to have more people to analyze a potential problem (my team got some help from another mentor which saved us much hassle). In writing this long response I hope I have not irked anyone. I just wanted to put my 2 cents in about nats. It's always been my job to be analytical, sometimes I go to far and I seem to be pesemistic. I hope that I have not done that now. C~ya, Carolyn, who has typed this in her first block with a dislocated finger that has not been reset yet.
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Unread 11-06-2001, 09:48
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The more and more I think about the idea of what to do with Nationals the more and more I realize that we're getting too big for a nationals as it's been run in the past. Basically, I don't think it matters the location, we've just gotten too big. It's no longer space but the fact that it'd be an event that was too large for FIRST or anyone else to reasonably handle. The pit was already enormous and the number of fields is quite a lot also. As for limiting nationals to a certain number of teams, it's already happened and will most likely happen in the future. Will that be fair to all teams? No but I don't think there's really a better option. We could move nationals but that doesn't solve the size problem. So basically I don't think the problem is with space but instead with the number of people. It's a different story for things like sporting events because there are only about 40 or so participants there. At a FIRST competition there are on the order of 10000 participants and that's where the differences comes into play. So basically I don't think we have a choice, as much as I hate it, to limit the size of nationals.

Matt who already felt the web hug was too big this year -- too many people he didn't know
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Unread 11-06-2001, 17:44
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[color=purple]Wll, as far as there being too many people to keep letting everyone go to nats. What about the number of people who attend sporting events? Most indoor arenas can hold tens of thousands of people, and the outdoor arenas can hold even more. I'm sure if the team owners are approached they will be happy to get a huge tax write-off in return for allowing FIRST to use their facillities. This may also bring the publicity from T.V. and newspapers that so many people are looking for. If one of the owners is willing to do something like this, he wants people to know about it. It could make front page news somewhere. I think I heard that the arena the Colorado Avalanche play in holds upwards of 60,000 people. That is a fairly large number. Maybe instead of making nats open to fewer teams FIRST should limit the number of people who go with a team. That would make going even more competitive. It would also eliminate groups like "The Florida Club" (which I'm sure more than one team has been plagued with. That's just 2 more cents from me.

C~ya,

Carolyn Who is rackin' up the 2 cents and might go broke one of these days.
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Unread 11-06-2001, 18:59
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Quote:
Originally posted by Carolyn Duncan
I think I heard that the arena the Colorado Avalanche play in holds upwards of 60,000 people.
fyi: most hockey / basketball arenas hold ~20,000 give or take a few thousand. Big football stadiums hold 60,000 - 80,000.

But I agree that FIRST will have to switch to a stadium if they keep growing the size of Nats. A basketball stadium sounds like a good solution, but the one thing it's missing is outdoors & Disney. One of the great aspects of Nats is sitting outside (even though I didn't do it enough) and watching matches, sitting outside eating lunch or talking with friends. Plus if FIRST moves to a stadium in a city, what will everyone do each day after competitions? The beauty of Disney is that's already taken care of.

I've heard a few people talk about Nats moving to Texas, and each time I hear that I think of the same question, "What's in Texas?". It certainly doesn't sound as fun as Disney.

Mike
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Unread 11-06-2001, 20:42
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As I said above, it's not an issue of location. It's more an issue of people control. It's rather difficult to control upwards of 15,000 people. And not just for a short period of time, but for three whole days. And there needs to be control for 5 different arenas and an enormous pit area. And to top it off, the vast majority of the people attending are high school students which makes it even more difficult. Now try expanding the numbers above because that's what'd happen if FIRST let more teams to nationals. There really isn't anything else that compares for its size, audience, and length. Because of the people control issues I doubt nationals will ever get bigger.

Matt
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Unread 12-06-2001, 08:08
Carolyn Duncan Carolyn Duncan is offline
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Wink

I know that there is a Six Flags in Texas. There are also sports for every season for those who are fans. I'm sure with the weather there is a water park somewhere. As far as crowd control. Lets think about it. For the most part the teams have responsible people, or just people who are aware of how they should act in certain situations. For people who do not fit this, maybe this would be a way for teams to cut down on the number of people at nats. As far as there being no out doors if nats is in a stadium, what's the difference between being in a huge air-conditioned tent and a building. I realize the sun-light issue, but really. For those who want to go outside and do something like, ultimate frisbee, I'm sure FIRST could um say bust out the fake grass from Disney and set up some kind of parking lot deal like at Disney. The only reason that I suggested Texas is because everything in Texas is bigger. According to their motto.
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Carolyn who loves to watch SNL to see Will Ferrel say "Don't mess with Texas!"
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Unread 12-06-2001, 08:14
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Lightbulb Idea!!!!

What about the Miami Dolphins' football staduim? Outdoors, space, still Florida,... Miami is a fairly large city with plenty to do. There's a beach. Just another 2 cents.
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Unread 12-06-2001, 18:39
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Question Houston

Earlier in the season I had heard rumors that FIRST was thinking about moving the Nationals to the Astrodome in Houston in 2003. They could easily handle all the people.
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Unread 12-06-2001, 21:51
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I don't think the issue is whether there is a place that can handle 15,000+ people. Heck, the LA regional was held at the Sports Arena, which seats that many.

Even if the nationals were held in a football stadium, what do you do about pits, multiple fields, etc.
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Unread 13-06-2001, 08:14
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Thumbs up Pits.. no prob

Well, it all depends on the size of the fields. Most stadiums have the levels and walk ways going around the field. the pits could be arranged going around the field. That would make it easier to see multiple competitions and from the pit!!!!!
C~ya,
Carolyn who really would like FIRST to be reading these suggestions and hopes they help.
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