Go to Post Wow, I am beginning to feel like a member of the fabled "vast right-wing conspiracy" :) - Jim Zondag [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Technical > Programming
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
View Poll Results: What is your most prefered programming language?
C++ 91 43.96%
PBasic 11 5.31%
QBasic 8 3.86%
Java 36 17.39%
Other (Please List) 61 29.47%
Voters: 207. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 4 votes, 3.75 average. Display Modes
  #61   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-01-2003, 16:38
rwaliany's Avatar
rwaliany rwaliany is offline
R
None #0691 (HartBurn)
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: http://www.hartrobot.com
Posts: 137
rwaliany will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally posted by Matt Leese
It's much more a scripting language (you don't tend to write programs in PHP)
Is that everyone or just you?

Quote:
Java is fairly good at teaching Object-Oriented Programming which is really a must when using structured design.
True, but it makes them lazy. They never have to worry about turning an integer into a string, etc...
If they now have to learn C++/C for the business world, they will hate not having a built in function to do it for them, and maybe transpose that hate to C++...

I have a strong C background. Before I used c++, I didn't mind malloc, calloc, free, memcpy, etc... Now that I've been programming in C++ for quite some time now, spoiled by the new and delete commands, it's hard for me to actually program in C. I still can but it's like "why do all the trouble and memory managing when you can do the same thing in c++ with no worrying."

I can't imagine how hard it would be for someone to switch from java to c++, c, or asm.
__________________
R

Last edited by rwaliany : 08-01-2003 at 16:42.
  #62   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-01-2003, 19:30
Adam Shapiro's Avatar
Adam Shapiro Adam Shapiro is offline
Registered User
FRC #0555 (Montclair Robotics)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Montclair, NJ
Posts: 401
Adam Shapiro has much to be proud ofAdam Shapiro has much to be proud ofAdam Shapiro has much to be proud ofAdam Shapiro has much to be proud ofAdam Shapiro has much to be proud ofAdam Shapiro has much to be proud ofAdam Shapiro has much to be proud ofAdam Shapiro has much to be proud ofAdam Shapiro has much to be proud of
Send a message via AIM to Adam Shapiro
Quote:
Originally posted by Matt Leese
It's much more a scripting language (you don't tend to write programs in PHP, you write dynamic web pages with it; yes it is possible to write programs in PHP).
I do agree that Java can be a good language sometimes but I consider Java as more of a web-based language and the internet was made for scripted interfaces. You can create nice, helpful interfaces using Flash with Perl for server-side scripting with a lot less trouble than Java. I'm not knocking Java but I would rather go with something else...

For client-side programs, I would rather use c++. I like the c++ interface a lot more...
__________________
Mentor to Teams 555, 1929, and 2070!
Currently working in hardware design at Cisco.
Cornell University DARPA Urban Challenge - http://www.cornellracing.com
Co-Captain Team 555 - 2003,2004,2005
Trust, Love, and Magic
  #63   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-01-2003, 22:43
rbayer's Avatar Unsung FIRST Hero
rbayer rbayer is offline
Blood, Sweat, and Code
no team (Teamless Orphan)
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Minnetonka, MN
Posts: 1,087
rbayer is a glorious beacon of lightrbayer is a glorious beacon of lightrbayer is a glorious beacon of lightrbayer is a glorious beacon of lightrbayer is a glorious beacon of light
Send a message via AIM to rbayer
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned one of the best things about Java: it's fully portable. Yes, you can use libraries like Gtk or Qt in C/C++, but those are usually hideously ugly and a pain to install on anything except *ix (n left out to include Irix).

You write one program in Java, it runs on all the major platforms, and all the major architectures. No recompiling, no library dependancies, just pure, beautiful object code.

Also, the argument that Java is slow is becoming less-and-less valid as JIT compilation becomes more-and-more effective.

Personally, I love Java. For what it does, it's one of the best, if not the best languages out there. On the other hand, it is not designed for simple text-based apps, nor is it designed for super-complex stand-alone apps.

Finally, as for the whole "standards" thing: Java is far more of a standard than VB ever was or will be. Also, Java was documented and standardized long before there was finally an ANSI C/C++ standard.
__________________
New C-based RoboEmu2 (code simulator) available at: http://www.robbayer.com/software.php
  #64   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-01-2003, 23:15
Rickertsen2 Rickertsen2 is offline
Umm Errr...
None #1139 (Chamblee Gear Grinders)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: ATL
Posts: 1,421
Rickertsen2 has a brilliant futureRickertsen2 has a brilliant futureRickertsen2 has a brilliant futureRickertsen2 has a brilliant futureRickertsen2 has a brilliant futureRickertsen2 has a brilliant futureRickertsen2 has a brilliant futureRickertsen2 has a brilliant futureRickertsen2 has a brilliant futureRickertsen2 has a brilliant futureRickertsen2 has a brilliant future
Send a message via AIM to Rickertsen2 Send a message via Yahoo to Rickertsen2
favorite to write code in: PHP, Java.
favorite "real" language: C++
Least fav: asm
I would go into the reasons why i like PHP, C++, and JAVA but im am way to lazy right now.

I must admit i am also guilty of occasionally using VB to code small windows appz.
__________________
1139 Alumni

Last edited by Rickertsen2 : 08-01-2003 at 23:22.
  #65   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-01-2003, 15:13
Clanat Clanat is offline
Custom Title
#0753 (High Desert Droids)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Bend, OR
Posts: 116
Clanat has a little shameless behaviour in the past
I don't see why everyone likes all the other languages besides pbasic, I don't see anyone programming their robots in c++ or VB.
__________________
Former Co-Captain
Winner NW Regional 2002 and 2003
  #66   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-01-2003, 15:54
Brandon Martus's Avatar Unsung FIRST Hero
Brandon Martus Brandon Martus is offline
busy.
AKA: B. Slash Kamen
no team
 
Join Date: May 2001
Rookie Year: 1998
Location: Nevada, TX USA
Posts: 5,271
Brandon Martus has a reputation beyond reputeBrandon Martus has a reputation beyond reputeBrandon Martus has a reputation beyond reputeBrandon Martus has a reputation beyond reputeBrandon Martus has a reputation beyond reputeBrandon Martus has a reputation beyond reputeBrandon Martus has a reputation beyond reputeBrandon Martus has a reputation beyond reputeBrandon Martus has a reputation beyond reputeBrandon Martus has a reputation beyond reputeBrandon Martus has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via ICQ to Brandon Martus Send a message via AIM to Brandon Martus Send a message via Yahoo to Brandon Martus
I believe this was a question about programming in general, not robot-specific.
__________________
Brandon Martus
e-mail
  #67   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-01-2003, 15:57
Anarkissed's Avatar
Anarkissed Anarkissed is offline
Sophist Extraordinaire
#0862 (Lightning - AAAAAAAAA)
Team Role: Student
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Plymouth, MI
Posts: 121
Anarkissed is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to Anarkissed Send a message via Yahoo to Anarkissed
Talking

mmm C and C++ are tasty

java is one of my personal favorites for web applications

perl for everything else

*ponders*


__________________
1999-2001 465
2001-2003 862
2002: Highest Rookie Seed - Nationals

2003: GLR,WMR Inspector
862 Vice President
  #68   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 13-01-2003, 12:00
jeremy562 jeremy562 is offline
Engineer
#0562 (SPARK 562)
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Fitchburg, MA
Posts: 74
jeremy562 is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to jeremy562
I don't know if anyone actually *likes* PBASIC.. but it's a decent language to get a niche job done quick and dirty. No one is going to write any enterprise applications in PBASIC any time soon.

The new additions to the syntax in 2.5 make it MUCH more similar to most other languages, which is a great thing.
  #69   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 14-01-2003, 19:50
Morgoth Morgoth is offline
Registered User
#0471 (Cybertigers)
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Michigan
Posts: 35
Morgoth is an unknown quantity at this point
Personally I'm a C++ kind of guy. I like messing around with OpenGL. Making demos.
  #70   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 14-01-2003, 20:32
Aureus Aureus is offline
Registered User
#0007
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Parkville, MD
Posts: 1
Aureus is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to Aureus Send a message via Yahoo to Aureus
My favorite language would most definitely have to be C++. I've been using it for quite a few years, and I've grown quite used to it and some of it's features, such as being able to compile on different operating systems. However, for quick development, that is, being able to start and finish a minor project in the same hour, nothing seems to be able to beat visual basic. Not the most powerful language I've ever seen, but it's ability to produce windows-compatible applications complete with a professional-looking GUI is quite amazing.
  #71   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 15-01-2003, 01:55
Zmeko Zmeko is offline
Registered User
no team
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Freehold Iowa
Posts: 15
Zmeko is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
For cross-platform programs, Java rules.
Ha aha Ha!!!!

Really?

Oh my god. mary, mohamad and Xenu should re-educate you...

Since when is Java a cross-platform language?




Quote:
Java isn't platform independent; it is a platform. Like Windows, it is a proprietary commercial platform. That is, you can write programs for Windows/Intel or Java/JVM, and in each case you are writing code for a platform owned by a single corporation and tweaked for the commercial benefit of that corporation. It has been pointed out that you can write programs in any language for the JVM and associated operating systems facilities. However, the JVM, etc., are heavily biased in favor of Java. It is nowhere near being a general reasonably language-neutral VM/OS.
Quoted from the most important person in the computer programming world: Bjarne Stroustrup .

Oh well, any ways, i am a retarded baptist and i would like to know if the linux kernel, it self, is consider be an operating system?

and, uhm, say if i was to download the linux source then modify it and screw around with it, would you still consider linux better then windows?

Anyways, please note that i am not anti-o/s but i just want to make sure i have my facts right...

Last edited by Zmeko : 15-01-2003 at 02:15.
  #72   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 15-01-2003, 02:58
rbayer's Avatar Unsung FIRST Hero
rbayer rbayer is offline
Blood, Sweat, and Code
no team (Teamless Orphan)
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Minnetonka, MN
Posts: 1,087
rbayer is a glorious beacon of lightrbayer is a glorious beacon of lightrbayer is a glorious beacon of lightrbayer is a glorious beacon of lightrbayer is a glorious beacon of light
Send a message via AIM to rbayer
Quote:
Originally posted by Zmeko

Since when is Java a cross-platform language?
Ever since I can write a program with a GUI and compile the same source code on just about any platform without putting #ifdefs around everything. If Java isn't cross-platform, then what is? And don't say "C/C++" because you can't do Jack without platform-specific libraries (MFC, X11, etc) or messy "cross-platform" libraries like Qt, Gtk+, Tcl/Tk, etc.


Quote:
Originally posted by Zmeko

Quoted from the most important person in the computer programming world: Bjarne Stroustrup .
That's a little presumptuous. I'd argue that the orignal Xerox team that came up with the first graphical OS was much more important. As were the people who helped move computing from the business world into homes (read: Steve Jobs, Compaq, etc).

Quote:
Originally posted by Zmeko

Oh well, any ways, i am a retarded baptist and i would like to know if the linux kernel, it self, is consider be an operating system?

and, uhm, say if i was to download the linux source then modify it and screw around with it, would you still consider linux better then windows?

Anyways, please note that i am not anti-o/s but i just want to make sure i have my facts right...
My take would be that yes, the Linux kernel is an OS. After all, it can run your computer and execute other applications.

If you download Linux, screw around with it, and then recompile it, it's no longer Linux. It's now your custom code based off of Linux. Anyway, this is kinda like asking "if I went in and randomly changed a few bytes of user.dll, would you still consider Windows to be better than DOS?" Even so, I would still consider your version of Linux to be better than Windows for the simple reason that I could take your source code, fix it, and have it working again if I chose to.

--Rob
__________________
New C-based RoboEmu2 (code simulator) available at: http://www.robbayer.com/software.php
  #73   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 15-01-2003, 07:00
VanWEric VanWEric is offline
Registered User
#0250 (Dynamos)
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NY
Posts: 86
VanWEric is an unknown quantity at this point
It is always fun to watch rob deal with a newb. Usually he can keep his cool, but not always. Rob, you are hilarious.
  #74   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-01-2003, 16:07
Zmeko Zmeko is offline
Registered User
no team
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Freehold Iowa
Posts: 15
Zmeko is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
It is always fun to watch rob deal with a newb. Usually he can keep his cool, but not always. Rob, you are hilarious.
Yep, Rob, you are truly hilarious.

Now where should I start arguing Rob’s propositions.
Should I state that Java code runs on a VM? Or should I state the facts of the “Level of abstraction”. No, I got it, I should argue the fact that he had misread my statement.
Quote:
[QOUTE]
Quoted from the most important person in the computer programming world: Bjarne Stroustrup .
That's a little presumptuous. I'd argue that the orignal Xerox team that came up with the first graphical OS was much more important. As were the people who helped move computing from the business world into homes (read: Steve Jobs, Compaq, etc).[/quote]
Where did I state the Bjarne was the most important person in the computing world?
Eh, we Canadians Baptist must be blind!

Quote:
Ever since I can write a program with a GUI and compile the same source code on just about any platform without putting #ifdefs around everything.
When you compile Java code for the JavaVM, the compilers compiles it to Java Byte code. Byte codes are like Opt codes except java byte codes can only run on the JavaVM.
JavaVM adds a level of abstraction or a layer that the code runs on. Java, like you said, can compile the same source code for any version of the JavaVM or any port of it. Java it self, compiles code that’s dependent to the JavaVM. JavaVM in this sense is a platform, the compiled Java code doesn’t run on the system but rather on the JavaVM. The JavaVM runs on the system, have you read Design Patterns (ref: Proxy (207)). Proxy design is like the design used in the JavaVM. The proxy objects allow accesses of many objects indirectly. JavaVM has objects that mirror the systems API.

Quote:
If Java isn't cross-platform, then what is? And don't say "C/C++" because you can't do Jack without platform-specific libraries (MFC, X11, etc) or messy "cross-platform" libraries like Qt, Gtk+, Tcl/Tk, etc.
You like you said, “ you can’t do jack without platform-specific libraries…”. Java also can not do scat without platform-specific libraries, but in java you do not have direct accesses to these system dependent APIs. You have accesses to Java’s API, this API is handled by the VM and the VM interface with the system.

Now, I don’t understand what I can not say C/C++ is the closet thing, right now, to a cross-platform language, either way; I challenge your arguments and thus I should able to challenge your statement, “And don't say "C/C++"” (Ala, you have not provide any adequate proof that your statement is fact).

C/C++ is more of a cross-platform language then java, because when the compiler compiles its code, they compile code that the native system can understand, java compiles byte code that depends on the JavaVM which could reside on or above the: services/daemons layer or application layer. When you run C/C++ code, the code can run on the kernel level, daemon/service level, application or any other layer/level. I know for a fact you can create an application that can ask a file for an entry point then continue executing the code from there, this could add another layer of abstraction.

You can do a lot with a ported version of the standard library, but you are right when you say that you need system dependent API to do GUI. I guess I can safely assume you do not know what controls the GUI drawing API in an operating system, I can assume this by what you have stated, “(MFC, X11, etc).”, MFC and X11 isn’t anything a like, one is a wrapper and one provides API for drawing, I will let you guess which one is which.

Most the daemons or services written are written in C or C++. These daemons are executed by the kernel, the daemons run services like: apache for http server or ftp services, in windows daemons are called services. Without these services you can not do much. This daemons/services are vital to an operating system and it is one of the components that make an operating system operate.

Quote:
If you download Linux, screw around with it, and then recompile it, it's no longer Linux. It's now your custom code based off of Linux. Anyway, this is kinda like asking "if I went in and randomly changed a few bytes of user.dll, would you still consider Windows to be better than DOS?" Even so, I would still consider your version of Linux to be better than Windows for the simple reason that I could take your source code, fix it, and have it working again if I chose to.
Not really, who says that I have to release the source code of my modified version of the kernel and who said that a modified version of the kernel isn’t still linux?

Anyways, I wrote enough about this, here some links:.
Linux for newbies

If you wish for further proof of my statements, please do not be afraid to ask.
Rember, this isn't my vocation...
Nor i think it's yours, but it's only me opinion.

Last edited by Zmeko : 17-01-2003 at 16:38.
  #75   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 18-01-2003, 14:11
roninmedia roninmedia is offline
The Ronin
AKA: Brian Nguyen
#1068
Team Role: Leadership
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Orlando
Posts: 43
roninmedia is on a distinguished road
Send a message via ICQ to roninmedia Send a message via AIM to roninmedia Send a message via Yahoo to roninmedia
My preferred programming language is PHP. I worked as a databse developer.
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Programming Compatition Angela06 Programming 30 08-04-2005 23:12
New programming language next year? Mike Alighieri Programming 131 13-09-2003 20:51
PBASIC sucks maDGag Programming 31 29-01-2003 03:16
TI programming using Z80 assembly language Jeff Wong Chit-Chat 1 07-06-2001 01:27


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 16:56.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi