Go to Post Progress should never made at the expense of the past. - Koko Ed [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Technical > Programming
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 19-04-2003, 10:25
Mike Ciance Mike Ciance is offline
Registered User
FRC #0025 (Raider Robotix)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: North Brunswick, NJ
Posts: 693
Mike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant future
Send a message via AIM to Mike Ciance
Lightbulb crazy idea for autonomous

here is one of the craziest ideas you will ever hear:

how about instead of having autonomous play in the beginning of the match, they have it right in the middle! the drivers would set the program before the start of the match. they would have to make sure that they are in a good area when the autonomous mode starts. after automomous mode the drivers would regain control for the remaining part of the match. now THAT would be exciting!
there will be robots that have dead reckoning modes where they need to be in a certain spot when the mode starts. there will be bots with sensors to detect field features and play by program variables. there will be suicide bot who try to ruin the autonomous modes of dead reckoning bots by pushing them out of position or blocking their set path. there will be bots that attempt to confuse robots with sensors. this would be a great concept for using in the future. it would mean intense cooperation and planning between the drivers and programmers using incredible, complex strategies. those few moments before the autonomous would be a key factor and include some of the fiercest competition that FIRST has ever seen! of course, the building period would probably need to be extended if this idea were used, but can anyone even imagine the action and chaos that this would create?

If FIRST asks for ideas again i am going to submit this
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 19-04-2003, 10:34
xavior06's Avatar
xavior06 xavior06 is offline
Registered User
#0075 (RoboRaiders)
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Hillsborough/Skillman, NJ
Posts: 54
xavior06 is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to xavior06
so... teams would be hitting each other more?...
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-04-2003, 16:40
Yan Wang's Avatar
Yan Wang Yan Wang is offline
Ithaca is Gorges
AKA: John Wayne
FRC #0639 (Code Red Robotics)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 1,910
Yan Wang has much to be proud ofYan Wang has much to be proud ofYan Wang has much to be proud ofYan Wang has much to be proud ofYan Wang has much to be proud ofYan Wang has much to be proud ofYan Wang has much to be proud ofYan Wang has much to be proud ofYan Wang has much to be proud of
Send a message via ICQ to Yan Wang Send a message via AIM to Yan Wang Send a message via MSN to Yan Wang Send a message via Yahoo to Yan Wang
Seeing as how most teams couldn't get a good autonomous mdoe to work even with dead reckoning while knowing where they'd be, it seems improbably FIRST would let robots control themselves midway into the game.
__________________
Code Red Robotics Team 639 Alumnus | www.team639.org
<Patrician|Away> what does your robot do, sam
<bovril> it collects data about the surrounding environment, then discards it and drives into walls
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-04-2003, 16:46
Jeff Waegelin's Avatar
Jeff Waegelin Jeff Waegelin is offline
El Jefe de 148
AKA: Midwest Refugee
FRC #0148 (Robowranglers)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Greenville, TX
Posts: 3,132
Jeff Waegelin has a reputation beyond reputeJeff Waegelin has a reputation beyond reputeJeff Waegelin has a reputation beyond reputeJeff Waegelin has a reputation beyond reputeJeff Waegelin has a reputation beyond reputeJeff Waegelin has a reputation beyond reputeJeff Waegelin has a reputation beyond reputeJeff Waegelin has a reputation beyond reputeJeff Waegelin has a reputation beyond reputeJeff Waegelin has a reputation beyond reputeJeff Waegelin has a reputation beyond repute
Don't discount the possibility, though. I forsee a mid-game or end-game autonomous mode sometime within the next 5 years. You can quote me on that. It will happen some time. Probably not next year, but I guarantee FIRST will work to make autonomous mode more important, and using it for more than just the opening move will be a new, fresh challenge.
__________________
Jeff Waegelin
Mechanical Engineer, Innovation First Labs
Lead Engineer, Team 148 - The Robowranglers
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-04-2003, 16:52
Mike Ciance Mike Ciance is offline
Registered User
FRC #0025 (Raider Robotix)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: North Brunswick, NJ
Posts: 693
Mike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant future
Send a message via AIM to Mike Ciance
Quote:
Originally posted by monsieurcoffee
Seeing as how most teams couldn't get a good autonomous mdoe to work even with dead reckoning while knowing where they'd be, it seems improbably FIRST would let robots control themselves midway into the game.
robots could use the absence of a good autonomous mode in their strategy. they could position themselves to block other robots from performing their autonomous modes correctly.

Last edited by Mike Ciance : 21-04-2003 at 16:49.
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-04-2003, 17:14
Mike Ciance Mike Ciance is offline
Registered User
FRC #0025 (Raider Robotix)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: North Brunswick, NJ
Posts: 693
Mike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant future
Send a message via AIM to Mike Ciance
some of you had posted that having the autonomous mode in the middle of the game would be too hard for starting teams. i think that teams without good autonomous modes could do a lot during the autonomous period when positioned right. robots could trap a robot with a great autonomous mode in a corner of the field and totally block them off. they could also make a simple program like going in a straight line or doing a certain action. as long as they are positioned right by the driver they will do fine.

i know this idea has some faults, but we can probably work them all out right here on the site.

Last edited by Mike Ciance : 21-04-2003 at 16:49.
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-04-2003, 17:52
gsensel gsensel is offline
Registered User
AKA: Geoff Sensel
no team
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Rookie Year: 1998
Location: Butler, MO
Posts: 318
gsensel will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to gsensel Send a message via Yahoo to gsensel
I think middle would be the best because it would throw another variable to wreck a score, but it would also give the opportunity to repair the score. Where as at the end it would screw a score or people would not really have a lot to do depending on what they did during the match.
__________________
Geoff Sensel

Andy Baker used me as a positve example at nationals in 2004!!!!!(Now who is the role model DJ????)

I was looking to start a team for my college for next year, but they got hooked up with a local JR High school doing BEST Robotics competition. Has anyone heard of this?
I was previously on the Technokats from 1998- 2002.
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-04-2003, 18:02
Mike Ciance Mike Ciance is offline
Registered User
FRC #0025 (Raider Robotix)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: North Brunswick, NJ
Posts: 693
Mike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant future
Send a message via AIM to Mike Ciance
Lightbulb reply/another idea

Quote:
Originally posted by gsensel
I think middle would be the best because it would throw another variable to wreck a score, but it would also give the opportunity to repair the score. Where as at the end it would screw a score or people would not really have a lot to do depending on what they did during the match.
i was thinking the same thing when i chose the middle. it would be kindof like the wall this year. whoever got the wall had a tremendous advantage in the match, but the other teams could still come back and win.

actually, i just had another idea. how about instead of just scoring points for robot position at the end of the match, points are also awarded for position at the end of autonomous. that would really spice things up. it would make things more fair for new teams, they could go to a scoring spot before autonomous, not move anywhere, and then score points for doing it. this would throw in a whole new batch of aspects to the strategy. should robots try to manipulate scoring objects, get positioning points, or really take a gamble and try to do both!?
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-04-2003, 20:05
KenWittlief KenWittlief is offline
.
no team
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 4,213
KenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond repute
Having auton mode at the end of the match would be the most interesting and most exciting - after you have done all you can, its all up to the robot for the last part

and all you can do is stand there and watch

[and scream!]

that would be fun
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-04-2003, 21:48
Vincent Chan's Avatar
Vincent Chan Vincent Chan is offline
the Friendly Team Asian
#1127 (Lotus Robotics)
Team Role: Student
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Posts: 125
Vincent Chan is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to Vincent Chan
Strategies were too complex this year as it was. I mean, there was a lot of great ideas for strategy, but they were impractical; it proved to be a lot simpler than making stacks and protecting them. Descoring and other such strategies were seen in some matches, but not all that many. I think what you'd end up with is either a great success or a flop. And it's more likely to be a flop.

Envision: teams have to make auton programs for the middle of the match. They have no clue how to use sensors, have no clue where they'll be, don't want to get DQed for anything. Other teams don't know what the situation will be like. So what's the safest bet? Don't move. At all.

There's a good number of bots out there that if they screwed up, they could definitely cause some damage to the field. And if teams don't know what'll happen before auton mode, then it's hard to plan for it.

It's too complicated for my tastes. Great idea, but I don't think it will work in practice.

Instead, let's have a game that concentrates less on brute force and speed, but instead on dexterity. This will eliminate the problem of 'the team with the faster points in auton will win' scenario.

Just my $0.02 (probably worth less, due to the failing economy in my head).
__________________
Lotus Robotics, Team #1127

"So everybody's got ideas. Ideas are cheap. What's unique is the conviction to follow through: to work at it until it pays off. That's what separates the person who thinks I wonder why they can't just make shampoo and conditioner in one? from the one who thinks Now, should I get the Mercedes, or another BMW?"
--Scat, in Syrup by Maxx Barry
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-04-2003, 21:54
Yan Wang's Avatar
Yan Wang Yan Wang is offline
Ithaca is Gorges
AKA: John Wayne
FRC #0639 (Code Red Robotics)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 1,910
Yan Wang has much to be proud ofYan Wang has much to be proud ofYan Wang has much to be proud ofYan Wang has much to be proud ofYan Wang has much to be proud ofYan Wang has much to be proud ofYan Wang has much to be proud ofYan Wang has much to be proud ofYan Wang has much to be proud of
Send a message via ICQ to Yan Wang Send a message via AIM to Yan Wang Send a message via MSN to Yan Wang Send a message via Yahoo to Yan Wang
Yes, that is crazy...
__________________
Code Red Robotics Team 639 Alumnus | www.team639.org
<Patrician|Away> what does your robot do, sam
<bovril> it collects data about the surrounding environment, then discards it and drives into walls
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-04-2003, 22:02
Mike Ciance Mike Ciance is offline
Registered User
FRC #0025 (Raider Robotix)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: North Brunswick, NJ
Posts: 693
Mike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant futureMike Ciance has a brilliant future
Send a message via AIM to Mike Ciance
Quote:
Originally posted by Vincent Chan
There's a good number of bots out there that if they screwed up, they could definitely cause some damage to the field. And if teams don't know what'll happen before auton mode, then it's hard to plan for it.
if a game like this were made, the field would be made sturdier and safer. FIRST would make sure nothing could go terribly wrong. you do have some good points though.

here are two changes i make to my original idea:

#1: the autonomous mode could be switched over and over until when the autonomy starts. this would help prevent robots from going crazy. if this were done there might have to be a limit on the number of autonomous modes a bot has to choose from.

#2: the drivers would have a kill switch that could be pressed at any time during the autonomous mode. this could also be incorporated into the strategy

Last edited by Mike Ciance : 21-04-2003 at 08:51.
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 21-04-2003, 09:57
team222badbrad's Avatar
team222badbrad team222badbrad is offline
3D Printing Specialist
AKA: Bradley Rigdon
FRC #0222 (The Tigertrons)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Tunkhannock, PA
Posts: 1,091
team222badbrad has a reputation beyond reputeteam222badbrad has a reputation beyond reputeteam222badbrad has a reputation beyond reputeteam222badbrad has a reputation beyond reputeteam222badbrad has a reputation beyond reputeteam222badbrad has a reputation beyond reputeteam222badbrad has a reputation beyond reputeteam222badbrad has a reputation beyond reputeteam222badbrad has a reputation beyond reputeteam222badbrad has a reputation beyond reputeteam222badbrad has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to team222badbrad
Auto mode should start at the end of the match....

I would like to see the robots programing decide who wins the match not the drivers....

hehehe
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 21-04-2003, 10:21
Ian W. Ian W. is offline
College? What?
no team (Gompei and the Herd)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Worcester, MA | Smithtown, NY
Posts: 1,464
Ian W. is a name known to allIan W. is a name known to allIan W. is a name known to allIan W. is a name known to allIan W. is a name known to allIan W. is a name known to all
Send a message via AIM to Ian W.
the idea of an autonomous mode is nice, but once again, the problem is lack of good programming language and lack of variable space. yeah, if i had a desktop PC controlling the robot through C++, yeah, i could probably write almost any autonomous program. what we have is a tiny chip, running PBASIC, with what, 26 (i've forgotten already in an attempt to hope that we'll use something better next year :-p) bytes of variable space.

while i wouldn't love a mid/end game autonomous mode, i would hate it if we had to do it with our current equipment. of course, if we have one next year, not like i have much of a choice to do it, but i can at least hope .
__________________
AIM --> Woloi
Email --> ian@woloschin.com

Last edited by Brandon Martus : 21-04-2003 at 11:22.
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 22-04-2003, 21:39
Jared Russell's Avatar
Jared Russell Jared Russell is offline
Taking a year (mostly) off
FRC #0254 (The Cheesy Poofs), FRC #0341 (Miss Daisy)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 3,082
Jared Russell has a reputation beyond reputeJared Russell has a reputation beyond reputeJared Russell has a reputation beyond reputeJared Russell has a reputation beyond reputeJared Russell has a reputation beyond reputeJared Russell has a reputation beyond reputeJared Russell has a reputation beyond reputeJared Russell has a reputation beyond reputeJared Russell has a reputation beyond reputeJared Russell has a reputation beyond reputeJared Russell has a reputation beyond repute
?

Find me ONE thing that you want to do in 15 seconds of autonomous mode that cannot be done with 26 bytes of variables...especially when using multiple slot programming.
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tethers...return of an idea from last year. Josh Hambright Rules/Strategy 6 01-05-2003 23:57
King of the Hill Rusted_Grail Rules/Strategy 7 07-01-2003 14:40
Forum idea AdamT CD Forum Support 11 08-08-2002 20:32
Another idea looking for comments archiver 1999 16 23-06-2002 22:01
great storyboard idea SharkBite 3D Animation and Competition 0 15-01-2002 20:39


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:45.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi