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View Poll Results: Which of the following gracelessly unprofessional things will YOUR team do?
Build parts between comps, but only if it's necessary for us to compete. 21 26.92%
Purposefully damage another robot during competition. 13 16.67%
Refuse help to those teams that need it. 4 5.13%
None of the above. 54 69.23%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 78. You may not vote on this poll

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  #16   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-02-2002, 18:48
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Jason Morrella Jason Morrella is offline
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all good points

After searching for the exact wording, I would have to say that Adam and Joe are correct. (I assume those who know us may have trouble believing that Eric and myself could have been wrong, but don't worry, the sun will still rise tomorrow.)
I had assumed that the top 8 could only pick from the remaining field, but the rule says they pick from all remaining "unpartnered" teams. I guess I assumed that "unpartnered" teams meant "unseeded" teams, instead of... well... "unpartnered".
However, remember that while a seeded team has the luxury of declining an alliance offer from a higher seeded team if they don't feel it is a good match, once they do they can not be picked by another seeded team - as once any team declines one offer, they can not accept another. (but if you are seeded, you would still be allowed to pick a partner)
The nice part is that the 2002 picking rule addresses exactly the situation Eric and Mike explained so well - teams will no longer have to wonder if they are better off as a 9th seed than an 8th. (which takes away a wonderful ethics and integrity gut check/lesson for FIRST teams, but is probably the proper way to do it to guarantee fairness for all).


JM
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Unread 06-02-2002, 18:57
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My fear

Due to the nature this year that Regionals are qualifiers and the game is very vicious I have to this to say to people. Through a Regional it separates the good teams from the bad teams. Now if your a bad team going against a good team how do you get into the elimination round. The correct answer is with only three matches left on that Saturday you are going all out and at this point a DQ won't matter because if a DQ comes hey look I'm already at the bottom of the standings. What I am saying is you won't really see rough play until the last couple of qualification matches; until then it is too risky for a team to be DQ. A famous quote from Coach Bill Belichek (Coach of the Super Bowl New England Patriots) "The scariest games are the ones where the opponents have nothing to lose and all to gain."

P.S I will not be involved in illegal activity
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Unread 07-02-2002, 01:22
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Jason M quote...
<<(I assume those who know us may have trouble believing that Eric and myself could have been wrong...>>
Actually I suspect they have known all along that at least one of us (I'll actually cop to this) is usually wrong :-)

I am RELIEVED that we don't have to face this issue.

But in the process of building a strong frame to handle impacts coupled with a kinda cool drive train we may have a fairly nasty "bad" robot. (ie Slammer)

the team has talked about it. Its not something we are planning on using first but I think we will respond to violence with violence. And that really saddens me. Pushing, shoving , all cool. But at the speeds teams are talking about 130 pounds is just a whole lot of KE to deal with (for the physics challenged Kinetic Energy.. 1/2 M V ^ 2, M is Mass V is velocity)
I hope we look back on this season as the one we worried about but it all worked out OK. remeber how we kept changing our minds about last years Game? I know I started by hating it and grew to really really like it. But hey I use to bowl.

As soon as we get some more parts bolted to the bot we'll post some pic's

Hope every one is still having fun.
Jason what regional are you at? San Jose or Seattle or??

Later
Eric
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Unread 07-02-2002, 01:25
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What if...
a team that gets disqualified for rough play or damaging an opponent is exempt from being a choice as an alliance partner. Seems to me that disqualification from being able to be picked will curtail alot of the bad behavior.
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Unread 07-02-2002, 08:42
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Post effect from three times losing opponent score

I think it is really important that we look at how the “three times losing opponent's score qualifying points” will determine what teams do with their robot in competition.


There are three things team will be doing because of the way QP works:

1. To get as much qualifying points as possible. This will make teams to challenge themselves and build a really good robot that will score more points than opponents. That robot won't be going around damaging others, because that team will believe that the better shape other robots are in, the better partner and opponents they will get to score more QP for them while winning. These robots will let opponents score as much point as possible, sometimes even help their opponent scores.

If all the teams are this kind of robot, we won't have to worry about anything that might demonstrate the opposite of gracious professionalism. But the world is not perfect.

2. To win as many matches as possible, and demonstrate itself as a really good alliance partner. This will make teams build a robot designed to win, instead of helping others to get as many point as possible. There are potentially two type of robots in this group:

Type A: Robots that won't care if they get 0 qualifying points, as long as they win every match. They won't go around damaging robots because their robot is so good that they will beat undamaged opponents. Even though they are not helping their alliance partners’ score, I don't think they are necessary "ungracious" in their performance. At least better than trying to damage other robots.

Type B: Robots that believe damaging other robots will help it win the championship. Although they won't intentionally use an arm to beat up other robots (which will lead to disqualification), these robots will keep pushing other robots until their drive motors burn out, or intentionally take advantage of structural weakness of other robots. By the end of qualifying rounds, there will be a lot of damaged robots, and these group B robots will be obvious choices of alliance partner.

3. There will always be the group of rookie and middle teams who are trying to build a functional robot, or try to score as many points as they can.

These robots will do the best they can in every match, and depending on their luck, they will get paired with #1 type robots or #2 type of robots. Who they get paired with and go against will ultimately decide how much qualifying points they will get, and how much damage they receive.


So, with the groups identified, here is what I think will happen.

There will be a bunch of good robots from experienced teams, which belong to #1 or #2. And because a lot of these teams are veterans, they understand the concept of gracious professionalism; they won’t go around doing damage. They might help out their partners and opponents by scoring points for both side, or they just score for themselves to win. A few of these teams will belong to #2 and win without much QP, and even less of those will intentionally damage other robots.

Then there will be a group of less experienced teams with decent robots, and I think they are even between #1 and #2, because these robots as good in controlling a match. They will most likely to score as many point as they can. Luck will decide whether they win with lots of QP (because of good partner and/or good opponents), or win with little QP (because of bad partner that just want to win, or bad opponents that couldn't score too much), or lose with a lot of QP for their opponents. A lot in this group won't be doing a lot of damages to other robots, because they don't want to, or not capable of, or too busy trying to score points for a win. Again, only a few of these will damage other robots.

Finally, the leftovers will try to get their robot working, and will never be able to damage other robots even if they try. Luck will ultimately decide if they can win with little QP, or lose with little QP.


After all these analysis, my conclusion is that there will be little robots going around to damage robot because of a few reason:

Most experienced teams will understand "gracious professionalism". They might also let opponents score as much as possible to get high qualifying points.

Most of the other teams will be too busy scoring points to win, and/or they won't want to damage other robots. They will be in there trying to play the game and play it well.

A lot of rookie robots will be busy getting their robot working, and won't be capable to damage other robots.


This leaves really little teams to go around and do bad things to others, due to the nature of qualifying rounds. I suspect a lot of damages to robot will be due to accidents…

During finals… robots will be damaged due to the nature of this game… But I don’t think teams will intentionally damage other robots…


Please correct me if I am wrong.
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