Go to Post What should the lesson of FIRST be? Work within your resources to build the most effective machine that you can--and, at the same time, work to increase those resources. - Billfred [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Technical > Robotics Education and Curriculum
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-11-2003, 16:09
Dave Flowerday Dave Flowerday is offline
Software Engineer
VRC #0111 (Wildstang)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Rookie Year: 1995
Location: North Barrington, IL
Posts: 1,366
Dave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond repute
Using an Operator Interface with the 2004 EDU RC wirelessly

I'm hoping this may be of use to some teams out there who'd like to be able to control their new 2004 EDU RC with a previous year's OI. What we've done is to connect the serial port on the 2003 EDU RC to the serial port on the 2004 EDU RC, and then modified the code for each so that the 2003 EDU RC simply acts as a forwarding device to send the joystick & button data from the OI into the 2004 EDU RC. Essentially, the 2003 EDU RC becomes a fancy radio modem.

There are only 2 pieces of hardware that you'll need to duplicate this setup. First is a special serial cable to connect the 2 RCs. This serial cable needs to only have 3 wires and connect the pins like this:
Code:
2003 RC        2004 RC
Pin 2 <------> Pin 3
Pin 3 <------> Pin 2
Pin 5 <------> Pin 5
Unfortunately one of the pins on the 2003 EDU functions as a reset line, so if it gets connected to the wrong pin on the 2004 EDU then the 2003 EDU will just stay in reset and not boot up. That's why the above 3 wire cable is best. I have not tested a standard null-modem cable though, so that may work as well depending on what's connected to what.

The other thing you will need to do is figure out a way to power both EDU RCs at the same time. We did not receive a new EDU battery with the 2004 kit, so I'm assuming noone else did either. The best option for this problem is probably to order a second battery from Innovation First. Otherwise, if you're feeling adventurous, you may be able to construct a Y power cable to power both RCs from the same battery pack.

Once you have figured out how to power both EDUs and made your serial cable, then simply download the code for each EDU from the zip file I'm attaching to this post. There's an OIPassthru.bsx file for the 2003 EDU and an MPLAB IDE project for the 2004. Your own code should still go in user_routines.c or user_routines_fast.c, just like with the default EDU code.

Well, hopefully this is helpful to some teams. Please feel free to reply with questions and we'll do the best we can to get them answered.
Attached Files
File Type: zip educode-oi.zip (38.8 KB, 165 views)
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-11-2003, 16:16
Skabana159's Avatar
Skabana159 Skabana159 is offline
Robotics and Field Hockey
AKA: Jesse C. Owens
#0159 (Alpine Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Ft. Collins, CO
Posts: 92
Skabana159 is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to Skabana159
Sounds ingenious. Thanks for the input. What exactly did you do to the code?
__________________
"What most people do not understand is that the Buddha, the Godhead, resides just as comfortably in gears and circuits as in hills and trees. To believe otherwise is to dilute the Godhead."
-Robert Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-11-2003, 16:57
Rickertsen2 Rickertsen2 is offline
Umm Errr...
None #1139 (Chamblee Gear Grinders)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: ATL
Posts: 1,421
Rickertsen2 has a brilliant futureRickertsen2 has a brilliant futureRickertsen2 has a brilliant futureRickertsen2 has a brilliant futureRickertsen2 has a brilliant futureRickertsen2 has a brilliant futureRickertsen2 has a brilliant futureRickertsen2 has a brilliant futureRickertsen2 has a brilliant futureRickertsen2 has a brilliant futureRickertsen2 has a brilliant future
Send a message via AIM to Rickertsen2 Send a message via Yahoo to Rickertsen2
You beat me to it.
__________________
1139 Alumni
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-11-2003, 16:58
Holtzman's Avatar
Holtzman Holtzman is offline
Sometimes...
AKA: Tyler Holtzman
FRC #2056 (OP Robotics)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: St. Catharines
Posts: 179
Holtzman has a reputation beyond reputeHoltzman has a reputation beyond reputeHoltzman has a reputation beyond reputeHoltzman has a reputation beyond reputeHoltzman has a reputation beyond reputeHoltzman has a reputation beyond reputeHoltzman has a reputation beyond reputeHoltzman has a reputation beyond reputeHoltzman has a reputation beyond reputeHoltzman has a reputation beyond reputeHoltzman has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via MSN to Holtzman
So let me get this straight.
WE cannot use the operator interface from last year with the new edu controller? or have i got this totally wrong.
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-11-2003, 17:28
Jeremy_Mc's Avatar
Jeremy_Mc Jeremy_Mc is offline
GitHubber
no team
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 496
Jeremy_Mc will become famous soon enoughJeremy_Mc will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally posted by Holtzman
So let me get this straight.
WE cannot use the operator interface from last year with the new edu controller? or have i got this totally wrong.
You can not use the full-size OI no. It will put out too much voltage and kill your 2004 edu-rc.

That's a bad thing...
__________________
GitHub - Collaborate on code, documentation, etc. - http://github.com
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-11-2003, 22:13
Dave Flowerday Dave Flowerday is offline
Software Engineer
VRC #0111 (Wildstang)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Rookie Year: 1995
Location: North Barrington, IL
Posts: 1,366
Dave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally posted by Skabana159
What exactly did you do to the code?
Primarily I added functions to receive data over the serial port on the 2004 EDU. For some reason, IFI provided code to send data out but didn't provide any mechanism to receive data. On top of those functions I built another function to capture the data coming from the 2003 EDU to a structure. Beyond that I just modified the Default_Routine() function to use the OI data instead of the PWM in data.
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-11-2003, 13:12
Andy Brockway Andy Brockway is offline
Engineer
FRC #0716 (Who'sCTEKS)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Falls Village, CT
Posts: 459
Andy Brockway has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Brockway has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Brockway has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Brockway has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Brockway has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Brockway has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Brockway has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Brockway has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Brockway has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Brockway has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Brockway has a reputation beyond repute
Thanks Dave!

We are adapting the EduRC to our 2003 robot. We built the cable and have finished the user portion of the code. This has allowed us to run the 2003 OI controls without modification. Our drivers may not even know the difference!

Our plan is to use this robot as a test bed for 2004 software development

I encourage everyone to try this!

Andy
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-11-2003, 13:45
Dave Flowerday Dave Flowerday is offline
Software Engineer
VRC #0111 (Wildstang)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Rookie Year: 1995
Location: North Barrington, IL
Posts: 1,366
Dave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally posted by Andy Brockway
We are adapting the EduRC to our 2003 robot.
Sweet! Glad to hear it. We're in the process of doing the same thing ourselves. Keep us posted on how it goes!
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 18-11-2003, 17:34
KevinB's Avatar
KevinB KevinB is offline
Registered User
AKA: Alum
no team
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: AL
Posts: 188
KevinB will become famous soon enoughKevinB will become famous soon enough
Send a message via ICQ to KevinB
Quote:
Originally posted by Andy Brockway
I encourage everyone to try this!
Team #538 has also attached the new eduRC to our bot from two years ago. Works like a champ! Now the hard part -- teaching everyone to program C (arg!)
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 18-11-2003, 18:23
Kautz Kautz is offline
Registered User
#1008 (Lugnuts)
Team Role: Teacher
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Columbus
Posts: 61
Kautz is on a distinguished road
Thank you Dave

Team 1008 hooked up the Edubots. Works great

We also try to control the pmw this work as well. So we will use this set-up to test and right code for our 2 speed 2 motor air shift transmission we our developing.

Thanks !!
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-12-2003, 15:08
Guilherme's Avatar
Guilherme Guilherme is offline
Guilherme Balbinot
AKA: Guilherme Balbinot
no team
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Brazil
Posts: 76
Guilherme will become famous soon enough
Send a message via MSN to Guilherme
Re: Using an Operator Interface with the 2004 EDU RC wirelessly

Iīve tried to connect the eduīs, but I had some problems.

I downloaded the program into 2003 EDU and into 2004 EDU with total sucess.

After that, I tested the communication sending pwm_03 = 250 , and engaging a servo motor into pwm03, in the 2004 EDU RC. It moved. So I tried pwm_03=127 and the servo stopped. Great, it worked.

Now, we tried to turn on the 2003 Operator Interface, in order to send Joystick data to the 2004 EDU controller (note: using 2003 radio modens). But for some reason it went crazy, and the servos didnīt respond to the joystick, they just start running at top speed, without stopping.

We plugged both RC in a main power source with 7,2 V, so it should power then at the same time.

We are trying to use TTL communication using Parallax RF modules, did anyone try to use something like this? What about the 3 pins for TTL communications, I read that thereīs no custom code in the default program for it, is that true?

We have a lot of thing in mind such as: pluging joysticks in parallax boards of education. After that we plug one RF transmitter, and we use another Parallax board to receive the signal. Finally, we program the receiver board to convert the signal (in value) to PWM signal (used in the 2004 RC). This is a little harder, but it works in theory.
__________________
Guilherme Balbinot

Last edited by Guilherme : 05-12-2003 at 15:35.
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-12-2003, 15:37
Andy Brockway Andy Brockway is offline
Engineer
FRC #0716 (Who'sCTEKS)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Falls Village, CT
Posts: 459
Andy Brockway has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Brockway has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Brockway has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Brockway has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Brockway has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Brockway has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Brockway has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Brockway has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Brockway has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Brockway has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Brockway has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Using an Operator Interface with the 2004 EDU RC wirelessly

Joe,

First are you using the 2003 EduRC with its internal Modem? The cabling goes between the two EduRC's to link them serially through the DB9 ports. The RC modem is not used.

The user_routine.c file is specific about which joystick controls which pwm_out.

================================================== ==========
pwm01 = pwm03 = Limit_Mix(2000 + OIData->p1_x + OIData->p1_y - 127); /* LEFT WHEELS */
pwm02 = pwm04 = Limit_Mix(2000 + OIData->p1_y - OIData->p1_x + 127); /* RIGHT WHEELS */
pwm01 = pwm03 = 255 - pwm01; /* reverse direction of left side */


/* ------ Other PWM OUTPUT Mapping (can be used for two-joystick drive ------*/
pwm05 = OIData->p3_x; /* limited by digital inputs 1 & 2 below */
pwm06 = OIData->p3_y; /* limited by digital inputs 3 & 4 below */
pwm07 = OIData->p4_x;
pwm08 = OIData->p4_y;

================================================== ===

Plugging into pwm03 may be giving you the strange actions. The default program uses it with the mix routine. The syntax is also very picky for OIDATA->___. Also if the modem on the 2003 EduRC is not firmly seated into the motherboard you wil get erratic motion up to and including basic run and init errors.

We have successfully adapted our 2003 code and can run our 2003 robot with this setup and our 2003 OI.

Andy Brockway
Team 716

Last edited by Andy Brockway : 05-12-2003 at 15:40.
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-12-2003, 16:25
Guilherme's Avatar
Guilherme Guilherme is offline
Guilherme Balbinot
AKA: Guilherme Balbinot
no team
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Brazil
Posts: 76
Guilherme will become famous soon enough
Send a message via MSN to Guilherme
Re: Using an Operator Interface with the 2004 EDU RC wirelessly

I plugged the 2003 EDU RC with the 2004 edu RC with the cables, I didnīt use the internal modem.

So the two RC are plugged with the 3-wire cable, and the OI sends data to the 2003 edu, just like you said.

Any idea of whats is causing this problem?

I just plugged a servo in pwm03 to test communication between the EDUīs.
__________________
Guilherme Balbinot

Last edited by Guilherme : 05-12-2003 at 17:10.
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-12-2003, 18:39
Guilherme's Avatar
Guilherme Guilherme is offline
Guilherme Balbinot
AKA: Guilherme Balbinot
no team
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Brazil
Posts: 76
Guilherme will become famous soon enough
Send a message via MSN to Guilherme
Re: Using an Operator Interface with the 2004 EDU RC wirelessly

...

The 2003 Edu RC receives data from 2003 Operator Interface. Then the 2003 Edu RC, witch is serial connected to the new Edu throught one cable (with the three wires like you said), sends the data to the new Edu RC.

Now... Is this correct? I guess so, 'cos itīs exactlly what we did.

The main question is: why canīt we control the servos attached in the pwm outputs located in the new Edu RC ? When we move the joystick we get no light blinking in the Operator Interface...

Thanks for your help, weīll work harder in the assembly to try to figure it out our mistakes. Just let me know if you found any difficulties like ours, so we can share solutions.
__________________
Guilherme Balbinot
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-12-2003, 07:56
Andy Brockway Andy Brockway is offline
Engineer
FRC #0716 (Who'sCTEKS)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Falls Village, CT
Posts: 459
Andy Brockway has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Brockway has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Brockway has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Brockway has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Brockway has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Brockway has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Brockway has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Brockway has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Brockway has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Brockway has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Brockway has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Using an Operator Interface with the 2004 EDU RC wirelessly

Joe,

I am still a little confused on your set-up. What are you using for the modem on the 2003 EduRC? For your test, plug the servo into pwm08 and test with py_4, this is a direct link.

The setup that we are using is as follows:

2003 OI with its Radio Modem, Team Number set (ours is 716) per IFI instructions.

2003 EduRC with its interal modem (this is the black box with two sets of multiple pins and plugs into the bottom of the motherboard) and motherboard, Team number set to 716, switch set to 'program'. Do not use the full size RC radio modem. I think you are using the internal modem because you said you had no problem programming.

2004 EduRC

Cable between the 9 pin connectors of the EduRC's. Note- must be per this thread, note crossover between pins 2 and 3. Do not use a standard serial cable!

All pwm cables attached to 2004 EduRC.

Good Luck!

Andy Brockway
Team 716, The Who'sCTEKS

Last edited by Andy Brockway : 08-12-2003 at 08:04.
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My hints and guess on the Game in 2004! Elgin Clock Rumor Mill 116 09-01-2004 13:30
2004 Championship Eligibility Criteria!!! dez250 General Forum 214 28-12-2003 20:11
2004 will be 2 v 2 Gadget470 Rumor Mill 20 25-10-2003 21:32
2004 Goals Rich Kressly FIRST Interactive Rural SupporT 2 19-10-2003 18:09
2004 OCCRA Competition Gadget470 OCCRA 2 11-06-2003 12:37


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 18:53.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi