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Next Year

Posted by Gary Fernandes, Engineer on team #88, TJ2, from Bridgewater Raynham Reg. and Johnson & Johnson.

Posted on 4/29/99 4:11 PM MST


In Reply to: Trust me posted by michael bastoni on 4/28/99 8:04 PM MST:



What a tough year it has been FIRST really gave us a challenge. I posted a letter last year about having A / B teams at the nationals. Mike you didn’t like the idea last year how does it sound to you for next year.

The top 50% of the teams at the regional pay in the A league at the nationals. For the finals the top 16 teams pick one of their alliance partners from the top 16 B league teams. This gives the teams playing in the B league something to go for.
I hope that everyone responds to my idea. Add your point of view trust me the FIRST gods are reading along with us.

I want to take my hat off to FIRST they did a really great job this year. The interaction between teams because of the alliance system I really enjoyed. Keep up the good work and try to take it easy on use next year so we can do FIRST and still have a life.


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Re: a box with wheels

Posted by Andrew Trax, Coach on team #180, S.P.A.M., from Southfork,Martin Co. High and UTC.

Posted on 4/27/99 3:56 AM MST


In Reply to: a box with wheels posted by Joe Johnson on 4/26/99 8:14 PM MST:



Yup, we were partnered with them in our last match. They could drive
but veeery, veeery slowly. The strategy used was for us to move the puck
to a corner and have the box block it. Then we passed all the floppies
to our human player, loaded our basket (8 floppies - 8 feet) then tried
to get back on the puck. It was our lowest score (48)and only our
second lose. Not too shabbby.

Mrs. T.




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Re: a box with wheels

Posted by Andrew Trax, Coach on team #180, S.P.A.M., from Southfork,Martin Co. High and UTC.

Posted on 4/27/99 3:56 AM MST


In Reply to: a box with wheels posted by Joe Johnson on 4/26/99 8:14 PM MST:



Yup, we were partnered with them in our last match. They could drive
but veeery, veeery slowly. The strategy used was for us to move the puck
to a corner and have the box block it. Then we passed all the floppies
to our human player, loaded our basket (8 floppies - 8 feet) then tried
to get back on the puck. It was our lowest score (48)and only our
second lose. Not too shabbby.

Mrs. T.




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Re: a box with wheels

Posted by michael bastoni of team #23, PNTA, from Plymouth North High School sponsored by Boston Edison Co.

Posted on 4/27/99 5:27 PM MST


In Reply to: a box with wheels posted by Joe Johnson on 4/26/99 8:14 PM MST:



Sometimes in real life we allied with (metaphorical) plywood boxes.....And I don't like
it any better....but at least I can do something about it...

By the time we played them they were only a plywood box with wheels.
They did not have motors in the box at that time...they were immobile...rocklike,
very similar to last years placebo... just wires a control box
and some speed controllers.....

Now I hate to be a jerk...a complainer, a whiner etc....and I suppose I should just
shut up...but.....I want to share a thought and pose some questions.

What are we doing here in the National Robotic Competition, I mean what is really going on
and what messages are we trying to send
and what behaviors are we trying to re-enforce in kids?

If we are simply saying to kids that ANY attempt at this sport is valid,
That any effort you make to simply show up at the nationals is cool, and that it's
really only just fun and games, and that there is really absolutely no
reasonable expectation of winning, and there are not recognizable standards
and it's not about education or skill development and we should all just look the other way
in situations like this...then so be it...but there are easier ways to
cop this attitude.

I am so darn tired of being told by the man in denim that this is not about education,
but rather about inspiration....well who is inspired by a plywood box with wheels ?
None of our teenagers were very impressed.

Let's look at gracious professionalism....the gracious professionalism shown by six
different teams who played with the plywood box is admirable...but the fact
that some adult advisor somewhere would allow and worse encourage his team to
attend the nationals and severely compromise six other teams is not gracious professionalism by any means.
It could possibly be seen as a selfish act by someone who paid 4000 dollars and
did not make the necessary commitment...but because they spent so much money felt entitled
to their moment on stage.....at the expense of some dedicated and hard working people who
'did their homework'...

I encourage my students to search for the truth in many ways..one way is to extrapolate
a given condition...let's ask ourselves a question...Would the FIRST National
Robotics Competition, and the students who participate, be better off, or worse off, if all the teams showed up with
OBVIOUSLY ill prepared machines....that is if we all had plywood boxes with wheels?
Based on your answer, you can draw your own conclusions.

Do you think the plywood box on wheels will appear on the 99 TV production video...
Time will tell....but don't count on it.

How many of you would knowingly enter an inadequate machine in a competition
knowing that your presence would severly compromise some hardworking folks ?
I don't see alot of hands raised on that one.....

OK The wrap up.....

Problems like the plywood box are the result of changing the game every year.
They are 'Bugs' in the alpha version of the game.....we could change this...
We could make things better every year, not worse, by keeping the game the same for 4-6 years
at a time.....the competitions would get increasingly more competitive and the
recruitment of teams would be much enhanced not to mention the fact that some of
your colleagues at work might want to come and help out if it means not losing their wife, job and ski week
..and if you are getting red in the face
over this..chill out...you can't know until you try.....

So......

We agree that anybody can play...and no matter how hard some of you work to build a competetive robot,
it really does not matter in the end because were all equal under the rules of FIRST....I'm on board for that (not)

Or we try to develop a game that we can live with for awhile and that we
can massage into something educational, and equitable and something viewed as
a real robot sport.....something we can try to be better at over time...
something that does not require heroism to participate in....something others won't be afraid
to participate in......

And in finishing I ask for a response to this question....

Who among you are ready and willing to debug this game...produce the
beta version or maybe even the 1.0 release...and play it again next year?
Or do you want another alpha version with the same bugs and problems we have every year?????

What say all you wonderful students, mentors and teachers....?


Mr.B


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Re: a box with wheels

Posted by Dave, Student on team #308, Walled Lake Monster, from Walled Lake Schools and TRW.

Posted on 4/27/99 6:00 PM MST


In Reply to: Re: a box with wheels posted by michael bastoni on 4/27/99 5:27 PM MST:



Hey,

I have to say is that I agree and disagre with you on many points, espically with the point that it's all out for blood and not for fun. I know no matter how hard you try, there are going to be teams that are out for blood, but going into nationals, my team nor I had any clue what our robot could do, and I made a commitment to myself that I would have fun no matter what happened.

I know that a plywood box on wheels isn't very inspiring, but there are other robots like them that were plagued by problems, just like my team was at regionals. If everyone who didn't think their robot was going to do good or that they couldn't win didn't come, there would be no competition, just a bunch of really good teams fighting each other. I'm not going to rip into the team with the plywood box, maybe they had unknown circumstances come up that we just don't know about. In my opinion, going to nationals is a reward for everyone for the time that they put in.

For the 99 TV production video, I think that they should show a couple of those matches. They don't block hockey games because one of the teams stinks, and it shows that all the robots that compete aren't all god-like, but that there are mortal robots and that you don't have to compete with the big teams to goto nationals.

To keep the same game but change it every year does have it's good points and bad points. The bad points being that some team out there will start early and get an advantage, even if the game changes slightly every year. It's not that hard to adapt a half built robot for changing plans. The good points would be that it will eventually get everyone better at. The problem with that is that the rookie teams would get smoked by the teams that have been playing the game for several years. You'd also start to see robots that look very alike. If they repeat this years game, there would be alot more pole grabbers and other gadgets that made certin teams unique. One idea would be to repeat the game every couple of years, say 4 years, so that no student plays the same game twice. This would allow for tweaking of the rules to make the game more fair and still keep a varaity going.

In all, I think that things will change if teams are paired up again next year. And hey, only 8 months until we find out our next game

Dave

: Sometimes in real life we allied with (metaphorical) plywood boxes.....And I don't like
: it any better....but at least I can do something about it...

: By the time we played them they were only a plywood box with wheels.
: They did not have motors in the box at that time...they were immobile...rocklike,
: very similar to last years placebo... just wires a control box
: and some speed controllers.....

: Now I hate to be a jerk...a complainer, a whiner etc....and I suppose I should just
: shut up...but.....I want to share a thought and pose some questions.

: What are we doing here in the National Robotic Competition, I mean what is really going on
: and what messages are we trying to send
: and what behaviors are we trying to re-enforce in kids?

: If we are simply saying to kids that ANY attempt at this sport is valid,
: That any effort you make to simply show up at the nationals is cool, and that it's
: really only just fun and games, and that there is really absolutely no
: reasonable expectation of winning, and there are not recognizable standards
: and it's not about education or skill development and we should all just look the other way
: in situations like this...then so be it...but there are easier ways to
: cop this attitude.

: I am so darn tired of being told by the man in denim that this is not about education,
: but rather about inspiration....well who is inspired by a plywood box with wheels ?
: None of our teenagers were very impressed.

: Let's look at gracious professionalism....the gracious professionalism shown by six
: different teams who played with the plywood box is admirable...but the fact
: that some adult advisor somewhere would allow and worse encourage his team to
: attend the nationals and severely compromise six other teams is not gracious professionalism by any means.
: It could possibly be seen as a selfish act by someone who paid 4000 dollars and
: did not make the necessary commitment...but because they spent so much money felt entitled
: to their moment on stage.....at the expense of some dedicated and hard working people who
: 'did their homework'...

: I encourage my students to search for the truth in many ways..one way is to extrapolate
: a given condition...let's ask ourselves a question...Would the FIRST National
: Robotics Competition, and the students who participate, be better off, or worse off, if all the teams showed up with
: OBVIOUSLY ill prepared machines....that is if we all had plywood boxes with wheels?
: Based on your answer, you can draw your own conclusions.

: Do you think the plywood box on wheels will appear on the 99 TV production video...
: Time will tell....but don't count on it.

: How many of you would knowingly enter an inadequate machine in a competition
: knowing that your presence would severly compromise some hardworking folks ?
: I don't see alot of hands raised on that one.....

: OK The wrap up.....

: Problems like the plywood box are the result of changing the game every year.
: They are 'Bugs' in the alpha version of the game.....we could change this...
: We could make things better every year, not worse, by keeping the game the same for 4-6 years
: at a time.....the competitions would get increasingly more competitive and the
: recruitment of teams would be much enhanced not to mention the fact that some of
: your colleagues at work might want to come and help out if it means not losing their wife, job and ski week
: ..and if you are getting red in the face
: over this..chill out...you can't know until you try.....

: So......

: We agree that anybody can play...and no matter how hard some of you work to build a competetive robot,
: it really does not matter in the end because were all equal under the rules of FIRST....I'm on board for that (not)

: Or we try to develop a game that we can live with for awhile and that we
: can massage into something educational, and equitable and something viewed as
: a real robot sport.....something we can try to be better at over time...
: something that does not require heroism to participate in....something others won't be afraid
: to participate in......

: And in finishing I ask for a response to this question....

: Who among you are ready and willing to debug this game...produce the
: beta version or maybe even the 1.0 release...and play it again next year?
: Or do you want another alpha version with the same bugs and problems we have every year?????

: What say all you wonderful students, mentors and teachers....?

:
: Mr.B


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Re: a box with wheels

Posted by Austin Martus, Other on team #47 from son of pchs coach.

Posted on 4/27/99 7:35 PM MST


In Reply to: Re: a box with wheels posted by Dave on 4/27/99 6:00 PM MST:



as you hear the people from FIRST always saying


is a plywood box with wheels really 'in the spirit of the game'???

i personally dont think so


just think about that


austin


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You know my vote...

Posted by Joe Johnson, Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

Posted on 4/30/99 5:00 AM MST


In Reply to: Re: a box with wheels posted by michael bastoni on 4/27/99 5:27 PM MST:



Folks,

I am just about as strong of an advocate for changing the game each year as Mr. B. is for keeping it the same.

For me and for most of our team, the idea of playing the same game each year is nowhere near as exciting.

Beyond this, there would have to be drastic changes to how the FIRST kit is developed in order to make it work.

Let me give you some examples.

You have probably seen the last Delphi Power Sliding Door Motor manufactured by Bosch. The Tiagene ones cost me about 2/3 and have essentially the same performance.

Also, don't bet on ITTA seat adjuster motors. ITTA has sold their motor business, the new owners are a brick wall when it comes to requests for donations.

Beyond obsolete stuff, new stuff causes just as many and perhaps more problems. How many teams would willingly give up the new motors from this year alone? What would your machine look like with the 2 drill motors and 4 seat motors that we had 4 years ago?

Changes to the control system really start to get interesting.

How are we going to keep the game the same if the stuff in the kit is constantly changing?

I vote against Mr. B's proposal.

Joe J.


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Re: You know my vote...

Posted by michael bastoni of team #23, PNTA, from Plymouth North High School sponsored by Boston Edison Co.

Posted on 5/2/99 7:32 AM MST


In Reply to: You know my vote... posted by Joe Johnson on 4/30/99 5:00 AM MST:



A Petition To the Robot Nation,

and a quick clarification....There is nothing I like better than a good debate....
And to clear the air here...let me state how much I appreciate and value
JJ's opinion and friendship..

but...

JJ is putting up blockades to a good Idea.....yes of course manufacturers
come and go...but electric motors do not...and who the heck said that
the kits had to be made from donated parts?

And please don't give me that old saw that the 5K goes to FIRST...yeah it
goes to FIRST to pay people to spend an inordinate amount of time trying
to assemble (Read beg for) kit parts...These same fees and good people could be putting
their time to better use recruiting and supporting new teams.

JJ, If the kit is your only impass we can settle that easy...let's all use
the McMaster Carr catalog as our 'Kit of Parts'...and limit power
consumption through mandated batteries, fusing and speed controllers...I don't think Jeff Gordon
builds his NASCAR from a donated Kit of Parts. What good does it do to give
a gyro chip to a team that can't utilize it....If that team see's others
utilizing sophisticated components...they will go out and learn to use them in order
to remain competative...let's let the the natural market forces work at FIRST too..
Let's not create false, manipulated worlds...let's get real...Let's break out
of this KIT DEPENDENCY...that we've been strung out on...and simply regulate by
rules and specifications. And don't demean peoples' intelligence by stating they
need kits.

C'mon JJ...All I'm looking for is to find a way to make FIRST a sustainable
program....We are losing top quality volunteers at an alarming rate...

99% of the teams playing FIRST after ONLY 8 YEARS are not original members...

Why....because their lives, their careers and their families have been too severly impacted....THE FOCUS OF FIRST
IS TO INSPIRE RIGHT....Well for gosh sakes...that is a focus shared by many many
organizations...We have no patent on inspiration....and we can inspire better
if we have more teams nation wide...if we have more local events and more
local and regional teams playing with their robots.....showing and growing the program.
Look...my wife has actually...after 5 years...asked that I please do something to include my family
during the 18 + weekends we dedicate to FIRST..I think there can be a better way..And let me
say that my wife is just as good as any FIRST widow...and that she is also a professional
career person (which makes things even harder on her) and that she is a full supporter
of my efforts as an educator..And I love her dearly too.


PLAYING WITH THEIR ROBOTS.........

Playing with the robots is not easy to do if you have to build new fields
and new robots every year...yes build new games...but darn it...build em every 4-5 years.

...I'm getting frustrated and I am no wimp.. other people are getting tired and frustrated too..Our group does
FIRST year round...and we'd like to continue doing FIRST year round....
But FIRST could make some really minor changes that would add alot of growth potential
and sustainability to the program...AND NOT SACRIFICE ANY 'INSPIRATIONAL
FUNCTIONALITY'.......and maybe make the program more educational in the long run...
The efficiency experts at Delphi might look at this issue and ask, How might we
obtain better inspirational bang for the buck...how might we better deploy
our capital and human resources in order to better inspire (and educate)
our youth.

Here comes some heresy frm Mr.b.....This program focus belongs mostly,
mainly in the schools...yep in the schools...know why?.....cause that's
where the target audience is....the kids. Keeping the game the same would allow
for some quality time spent analyzing and re-engineering the bot...LEARNING FROM MISTAKES.
Alot of those time consuming but worthwhile things you PE folks at Delphi do..
We will always have plywood boxes in the competitions...always have rookies
at a decided disadvantage...what we won't always have is talented, hardworking
volunteers to share their lives with kids....

Not unless we adopt a specific profile for FIRST volunteers....umarried, no kids
no pressing job responsibilities and highly proficient in technical design...
And I for one, don't meet that criteria..

Look....Joe has a point, Woody has a point....Dean has a point...you all
have good reason to keep changing the game...but look around...talk to the old time
people.

How in the heck can you think you have a sustainable program if it depends on the
heroic efforts of one individual like JJ to keep it together..

JJ....ask yourself one question....If you took a job offer at say 500K
to work somewhere else (very very possible at some point in time)....would team 47 survive intact?

If you answer yes...you have sustainability...if not and so many teams, hundreds
actually have not...then you've got to make changes that accomodate and resolve
what appears to be the single largest problem to growing this organization...


I respect JJ's point...and I DO NOT SPEAK FOR ANYONE ON MY TEAM OR ON ANY OTHER TEAM..
Only for myself...
I look down the road and see flattened growth and high turnover for FIRST..
and I am screaming for someone to stand up and address this issue with action.
Recruitment is not a problem...it is the attrition rates and the nation wide
fear that people have about 'Making the commitment' that needs to be addressed.

Please don't spend too much time questioning my motives...my position is
documented clearly....and my commitment to students as well...

To the Robot nation I ask......Is everything perfect as it is...or is there
work to be done to improve the sustainability of FIRST ?

FIRST IS GOOD, FIRST IS GREAT, FIRST NEEDS SOME RE ENGINEERING TOO. Just because
mr.b does not seem to be 'Towing the Line' does not mean he is not especially
dedicated or concerned with inspiring youth....don't make that mistake.

Mr. B



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Let's try it...

Posted by Joe Johnson, Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

Posted on 5/2/99 7:46 PM MST


In Reply to: Re: You know my vote... posted by michael bastoni on 5/2/99 7:32 AM MST:



Mike,

I am not making any claim that FIRST is perfect. In fact, you know that on many issues, I have been among FIRST's most vocal critics.

But, like you, I am not just throwing rocks in order to break windows. We both believe in the necessity important changes in the direction that our country and culture is headed.

FIRST can play an important role in making those changes.

NOW, on to your particulars.

I agree with you on many issues, perhaps especially the need to get FIRST to a purchaseable kit. My hope is that FIRST will swing a deal with Small Parts Inc to sell the stuff that is not available over the counter.

As to changing the game each year, we are just going to have to agree to disagree.

However, I am not an unreasonable man. In my opinion, the risks associated with trying a year of keeping the game the same pales in comparison to risks that FIRST took this year in changing the format as radically as they did.

So, while I am not a big fan of the idea, if there is enough support for it among the teams out there, I would be willing to get behind a 1 year trial of the idea.

There will still be exciting matches. There will still be new robot designs. There are worse games to repeat. It would be a good year.

So...

What do team think? Is it worth a 1 year trial?

Joe J.

P.S. I still have my doubts as to whether or not it will address any of the concerns Mr.B. has, but that is a message for another day. JJ


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Re: let the trial begin . . .

Posted by Dan, Student on team #10, BSM, from Benilde-St. Margaret's and Banner Engineering.

Posted on 5/2/99 9:01 PM MST


In Reply to: Let's try it... posted by Joe Johnson on 5/2/99 7:46 PM MST:



>>>So, while I am not a big fan of the idea, if there is enough support for it among the teams out there, I would be willing to get behind a 1 year trial of the idea.
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Re: let the trial begin . . .

Posted by michael bastoni, Coach on team #23, PNTA, from Plymouth North High School and Boston Edison Co.

Posted on 5/3/99 4:19 PM MST


In Reply to: Re: let the trial begin . . . posted by Dan on 5/2/99 9:01 PM MST:



Dan,

The game is being replayed this summer....at about nine locations nationwide.
That's the whole point...extending the game cycle will allow
more time and opportunities to play...and playing the darn
game is the hook...it's what we are supposed to be doing..Playing
and learning.....these things are closely aligned...inseperable
actually...

And the trial must be for more than one year...we've done this for
8...I say we try the next change for 8.....1 year proves nothing..
We should go for 2, 4 year cycles....

But this is where negotiation takes place.

Mr.b


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Re: Let's try it...

Posted by Raul, Engineer on team #111, Wildstang, from Rolling Meadows & Wheeling HS and Motorola.

Posted on 5/3/99 5:01 PM MST


In Reply to: Let's try it... posted by Joe Johnson on 5/2/99 7:46 PM MST:



If we did the same game for one year, I have some predictions based on two scenarios:
1) FIRST tells teams that they must maintain the same basic functionality.
2) FIRST tells teams that they can start from scratch if they wish.

I will concede for now that many of the learning benefits that Mr.B stated in the past will come true.

For #1:
This is easy.
- Many teams will tweak their robots to fix the problems they had and make their design stronger, more reliable, etc, etc.
- We will all get more sleep and spend a lot less money.
- Rookies will copy someone’s design and learn less than they may have otherwise.
- Those that had a really weak design will be discouraged by the inability to completely redo their design.
- Many engineers will lose interest because every engineer wants to try something new and creative not just fix an existing design. Yes, I know this is also what happens most often in real engineering but it is just not as inspirational.
- Actually, now that I think about it, this is just what we interpret Rumble at the Rock to be and we will not be changing anything even though we have lots of time to do it.

For #2:
- Many teams will come up with killer defensive robot designs because no one will want to be pushed around or tipped over.
- The matches will become boring because everyone’s strategy will be the same – take over the puck and keep others off. Or maybe not boring if it becomes like Robot Wars.
- FIRST will have to allow even more contact and aggression to keep it interesting
- Budgets may increase for spare parts needed, especially motor that, as JJ says, are becoming obsolete.
- We will implement a design that we had pondered that will ignore scoring and completely engulf the puck and not let anyone else on. Believe me, it would be completely legal but if you thought TKO was tough this will be your worst nightmare.

OK, I may be completely wrong on this but every bone in my body tells me it just doesn’t feel right to keep the game the same.

Maybe, we can have two divisions, one for a new game and another for those that wish to have another crack at perfecting their design. If I ask my son which one he would prefer, I know what he will say.

That’s my 20 cents worth.

Raul



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Not Alone in the Woods

Posted by Dodd Stacy, Engineer on team #95, Lebanon Robotics Team, from Lebanon High School and CRREL/CREARE.

Posted on 5/3/99 9:02 AM MST


In Reply to: Re: You know my vote... posted by michael bastoni on 5/2/99 7:32 AM MST:




Mr. B,

I think your read on the key issues is dead bang on. FIRST as presently configured is not sustainable as an exponential growth vehicle for getting more kids to pursue scientific, technical, and engineering education. I believe the enterprise is straining as the seams right now, and it's essential that sustainability receive urgent attention. Some random thoughts on some of your points:

LONGER RUN ON THE SAME GAME. I've been here from the beginning, here's why. I think the key to sustainability is to embed the FIRST program in the school system. That requires that the science, math, industrial arts, computer etc faculty get on board and work the program into the curriculum, and the school administration and the board make a serious commitment to the program. School is where the kids are, dying for something to bite into. Forget TV. I don't know how representative our team is, but we have one science teacher and a bunch of engineers who blow through the school like a six week hurricane and create a huge ruckus for everyone. The administration tolerates our efforts and gives lip service support, but we are on shakey ground. I believe we would have more success in enlisting teachers if the game were more stable and they could work the robot design process into their classroom material. I know some schools and teams already do this successfully, but I think the chaotic nature of the FIRST program is a barrier to persuading overworked teachers to join in.

BURNOUT. We all understand this intimately, and it is a HUGE damper on exponential growth of the program. I have a running discussion with my son, who is also an engineer on our team, as to whether FIRST is the right vehicle to invest our time and energy in to inspire/mentor/empower bright kids to shoot for the moon. Yes, there are always a couple of obvious successes each year, and perhaps a few sleepers, but the job of building the 'bot can compete with focusing attention on the kids when we're stretched thin and time is short. Something about alligators and draining the swamp. This also cuts to slowing down the game cycle - more time to devote to the KIDS rather than the 'bot.

KITS. I can only add to your excellent coverage of the points that the cost of purchasing what we need from an expanded industrial supply source like MMC is peanuts compared to the expenses of team travel to the Nationals. Not to mention what a pain it is trying to find spare parts for discontinued models of drills, etc (which I suppose is why a lot of the stuff in the Kit is donated in the first place).

THE GAME. I'd like to see a game that could be played between schools at halftime of their basketball games. Structure the rules to enable playing on the wood court without damaging it, use the existing boundaries, and work in scoring that builds as it goes and is posted on the scoreboard in real time. The particulars I suggest may not be apt, but the concept of piggy backing on the existing school sports program, facilities, and AUDIENCE does all the right things to promote the program goals within the school culture. The game could evolve and refine as the machines were further developed, and I'm sure the teams would figure out how to network the scouting and intelligence gathering end of it to compensate for just meeting one opponent per game nite.

Dodd



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Re: Not Alone in the Woods

Posted by michael bastoni, Coach on team #23, PNTA, from Plymouth North High School and Boston Edison Co.

Posted on 5/3/99 4:13 PM MST


In Reply to: Not Alone in the Woods posted by Dodd Stacy on 5/3/99 9:02 AM MST:




Dodd,

Thank you so very much....for simply being there....you too are so very right on.
And so much more eloquent....we need to talk.

Mr.b
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Re: Not Alone in the Woods

Posted by Dan, Student on team #10, BSM, from Benilde-St. Margaret's and Banner Engineering.

Posted on 5/3/99 4:43 PM MST


In Reply to: Not Alone in the Woods posted by Dodd Stacy on 5/3/99 9:02 AM MST:



I've found that most of what I learn from FIRST happens in the early stages of our 6 weeks.
Things like how I initially confront the problem, how the team decides on designs, and basically working very hard to make sure my 'vision' of the design is realistic are pretty key to FIRST's success.
If FIRST were to repeat the game and teams were to use the same robot w/ slight additions, then how would you make sure the kids get exposed to these vital steps in the process?
Sure you could make sure everyone knows why the robot is like it is, but that is a lot different then creating a design purely from scratch (ie with no previous designs affecting you). If the repeat-the-game thing is going to happen, this issue needs to be addressed or accepted as one of the downfalls. :-Dan


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