Go to Post If your goal is to win matches... Pick the most capable candidate. If your goal is to change lives... Sometimes you pick those that need the most change. - IKE [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Old Forum Archives > 1999
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 23-06-2002, 23:16
archiver archiver is offline
Forum Archival System
#0047 (ChiefDelphi)
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Pontiac, MI
Posts: 21,214
archiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond repute
An idea for the 2000 games..(is six weeks enough?)

Posted by colleen.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Other on team #?, Actually, I'm a FIRST-aholic, from an undecided team for the year 2000 and I'm taking invitations :-).

Posted on 7/28/99 1:26 PM MST



A subject that's always brought up and felt by us all- the burnout that occurs from only having six weeks to build our robots. We're constantly tossing around the ideas of keeping the same competition multiple years, making construction year round or at least up until the actual competition.

Here's a new idea to think about:
What if... we found out the challenge early..say November/December but didn't receive the kit of parts until the normal January kickoff? Everyone could be sent rule books and photos of the field and they could start everything but robot construction then since they wouldn't know what parts would be used.

The pros:
-You can start those long strategical meetings then to decide what you want your robot to do and how to do it. Meet a couple times a week for brainstorming.
-You can build your field then. That way, you don't need to try to figure out how to build that right at the same time you're trying to create a bot.
-It can be used as a recruitment tool for new students. They can work up to the meeting everynight of the week and have time to be convinced that they want to join.
-It'll give rookies more time to get used to the rules and to learn how to read the books.
-Many rules questions can be asked and/or changed in advance. Then, by the time construction starts, the rules are pretty well set as to what can and can't be done and the only questions left for those busy FIRST people and their updates are kit-related.

The cons (if you think of them as such):
-It does lengthen that period and could increase the time put in for some.
-The veterans kind of know what kit parts are included each year (although, maybe having a totally different kit would enhance the challenge) and could start planning some parts based on that knowledge (possible solution- included with the rule book, a list of last year's kit parts?)

Anyway.. it's an idea to lessen burnout and help make it easier on the newcomers to really learn all they can.. what do you guys think?


__________________
This message was archived from an earlier forum system. Some information may have been left out. Start new discussion in the current forums, and refer back to these threads when necessary.
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 23-06-2002, 23:16
archiver archiver is offline
Forum Archival System
#0047 (ChiefDelphi)
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Pontiac, MI
Posts: 21,214
archiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond repute
Re: An idea for the 2000 games..(is six weeks enough?)

Posted by Kate.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Engineer on team #190, Gompei, from Mass Academy of Math and Science and Worcester Polytechnic Institute.

Posted on 7/28/99 2:36 PM MST


In Reply to: An idea for the 2000 games..(is six weeks enough?) posted by colleen on 7/28/99 1:26 PM MST:



I really like this idea.. it reminds me of Jon's idea in the general forum.. but this is better.. cuz of the reasons you listed.. it's a lot more time to build the playing field and to interpret the rules to modify them and stuff.. maybe a couple of the team representatives that are going to the team forum in mid-August.. I'm trying to get myself to be there and posting the questions and ideas that are at the forum on this page.. but as of yet that's not happening.. but i'm not done begging yet.. ;-) talk to you all soon!!

-KATE-
__________________
This message was archived from an earlier forum system. Some information may have been left out. Start new discussion in the current forums, and refer back to these threads when necessary.
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 23-06-2002, 23:16
archiver archiver is offline
Forum Archival System
#0047 (ChiefDelphi)
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Pontiac, MI
Posts: 21,214
archiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond repute
i like

Posted by Jon.

Engineer on team #190, Gompei, from Mass Academy of Math and Science and Worcester Polytechnic Institute.

Posted on 7/28/99 2:59 PM MST


In Reply to: An idea for the 2000 games..(is six weeks enough?) posted by colleen on 7/28/99 1:26 PM MST:



i like what i read...
specially getting the rule question process out of the way early... some of those changes can be very detrimental to a strategy/design...
to counter one of Colleen's cons: the veterans do know the parts better but in my opinion it just becomes an advantage to having some history. i think changing the package drastically every year may be too expensive for FIRST.

What could be done is release a PDF of the thing in november or whenever. People without internet access would request FIRST to get the advance release and have a cd or paperback copy sent to them or something...
the rule questioning and update process starts off earlier and by kickoff time, the big issues would be resolved and rule books could be distributed then like normal.

Oh yea, and whenever rules are distributed online, people should get a choice between one big file of the whole thing or just the different parts. having one big file makes it easier to transport and search.
that multiple file thing was kinda annoying... somethings make sense like the field blueprints, but you should at least get a choice.


__________________
This message was archived from an earlier forum system. Some information may have been left out. Start new discussion in the current forums, and refer back to these threads when necessary.
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 23-06-2002, 23:16
archiver archiver is offline
Forum Archival System
#0047 (ChiefDelphi)
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Pontiac, MI
Posts: 21,214
archiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond repute
Or visa-versa?

Posted by Raul.

Engineer on team #111, Wildstang, from Rolling Meadows & Wheeling HS and Motorola.

Posted on 7/28/99 6:31 PM MST


In Reply to: An idea for the 2000 games..(is six weeks enough?) posted by colleen on 7/28/99 1:26 PM MST:




Good idea.
How about the opposite?: Give us just the kit of parts but don't tell us what the objective and rules are until the kickoff.


__________________
This message was archived from an earlier forum system. Some information may have been left out. Start new discussion in the current forums, and refer back to these threads when necessary.
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 23-06-2002, 23:16
archiver archiver is offline
Forum Archival System
#0047 (ChiefDelphi)
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Pontiac, MI
Posts: 21,214
archiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Or visa-versa?

Posted by Kate.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Engineer on team #190, Gompei, from Mass Academy of Math and Science and Worcester Polytechnic Institute.

Posted on 7/28/99 8:43 PM MST


In Reply to: Or visa-versa? posted by Raul on 7/28/99 6:31 PM MST:



I think it'd be better if we got the rules early so we could clarify the rules.. maybe not getting them wicked early.. but just enough to count.. course, I'm not sure how long that is yet.. but that may be cuz I fried my brain at work today.. so yeah..

-KATE-
__________________
This message was archived from an earlier forum system. Some information may have been left out. Start new discussion in the current forums, and refer back to these threads when necessary.
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 23-06-2002, 23:16
archiver archiver is offline
Forum Archival System
#0047 (ChiefDelphi)
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Pontiac, MI
Posts: 21,214
archiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond repute
hmm..

Posted by colleen.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Other on team #?, Actually, I'm a FIRST-aholic, from an undecided team for the year 2000 and I'm taking invitations :-).

Posted on 7/28/99 10:19 PM MST


In Reply to: Or visa-versa? posted by Raul on 7/28/99 6:31 PM MST:




i don't know how that would work out.. cause even if we knew we had gyroscopes, 1/4' lexan and PVC, etc. in advance, what would you do with that info?

- a pro for that is education of parts- know that there are very few kids that could identify not even all but most of the parts cause there is not time to learn about them.. but it seems to have more benefits in the opposite.. just what i think..


__________________
This message was archived from an earlier forum system. Some information may have been left out. Start new discussion in the current forums, and refer back to these threads when necessary.
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 23-06-2002, 23:16
archiver archiver is offline
Forum Archival System
#0047 (ChiefDelphi)
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Pontiac, MI
Posts: 21,214
archiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond repute
I like it

Posted by Becky Sherman.

Student on team #27, The Rush, from OSMTech Academy and DaimlerChrysler.

Posted on 7/29/99 8:30 PM MST


In Reply to: Or visa-versa? posted by Raul on 7/28/99 6:31 PM MST:



Having the kit of parts early is a great idea. It gives new members a great oppurtunity to learn what each part does. I know when I was a new member last year I saw the kit and didn't have the first clue what the motors, speed controllers, pneumatics, etc. did. And at that point there wasn't a whole lot of time for me to learn what each thing did. I ended up learning by being an observer. New members would be greater asset if they understand how everthing works. It also lets the team experiment in basic designs for arms, lift systems, drive trains.

But here's another idea. Why not just extend the six weeks to say, 8 weeks. Or even 10.
__________________
This message was archived from an earlier forum system. Some information may have been left out. Start new discussion in the current forums, and refer back to these threads when necessary.
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 23-06-2002, 23:17
archiver archiver is offline
Forum Archival System
#0047 (ChiefDelphi)
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Pontiac, MI
Posts: 21,214
archiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond repute
Re: An idea for the 2000 games..(is six weeks enough?)

Posted by Daniel.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Student on team #192, Gunn Robotics Team, from Henry M Gunn Senior High School and NASA Ames.

Posted on 7/29/99 2:47 AM MST


In Reply to: An idea for the 2000 games..(is six weeks enough?) posted by colleen on 7/28/99 1:26 PM MST:



I follow your logic. Most of it...

I have a little problem with the part where people 'don't start building' until the kit is mailed to them. I'm sure you're aware that people design (and likely build) complex drivetrains outside of the six week timeframe. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure this is fairly common.

Here's what I'm getting at:

People are able to design their drivetrains because they know the game will involve driving. They don't need to know exactly what the kit will look like cuz they can adapt their designs to what they receive. Not only that but they have a VERY good idea what the kit will look like, as it is vastly impractical for FIRST to completely restructure the kit each year.

Now say we give them the rest of the game early too. Suddenly teams that are familiar with the kit will have their robot design completed by the beginning of the competition, and will get the entire six weeks for driving practice. Either that or they'll be like my team and end up starting over three times... =)

In any case, all I can see growing through this is the gap between rookie and veteran teams. That gap is wide enough as it is.

Now about Raul’s idea. I like that because it allows teams to teach their new members about the kit before tossing them into production, without giving a head start to any teams. This is more aimed at leveling the playing field between rookie and veteran teams as it allows rookies to familiarize themselves with their brushes before they start painting.

This is a good topic Colleen! Thanks for bringing it up. Now...lets see where it takes us.


-Daniel Lehrbaum


__________________
This message was archived from an earlier forum system. Some information may have been left out. Start new discussion in the current forums, and refer back to these threads when necessary.
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 23-06-2002, 23:17
archiver archiver is offline
Forum Archival System
#0047 (ChiefDelphi)
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Pontiac, MI
Posts: 21,214
archiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond repute
agreement, disagreement, and a revised possible idea

Posted by colleen.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Other on team #?, Actually, I'm a FIRST-aholic, from an undecided team for the year 2000 and I'm taking invitations :-).

Posted on 7/29/99 9:34 AM MST


In Reply to: Re: An idea for the 2000 games..(is six weeks enough?) posted by Daniel on 7/29/99 2:47 AM MST:



I can follow your logic too.. and I think for the most part we're on the same track, just little variations of ideas.

If teams do start building in advance, 'mocking up' persay that's fine. If you can design a drive system based on what you expect to be there, that's good too.
Case in point- it will allow teams more time to familiarize themselves with the competition, allow FIRST to revise the rules, and in general just expand time so burnout is less. I understand FIRST can't majorly change the kit, but changing little things could keep it a healthy challenge (what if instead of giving you four wheelchair wheels, they gave you four wheels of the Fisher Price trucks instead of those motors?) Even if they don't change the kit majorly, like i said, they can send a parts list from the previous year to give rookies the introduction necessary.

The hope for my idea was to stretch out the time spent over a longer period of time so yes, teams could have more time to practice driving, more time for better design, more time to teach the process instead of just flying through it-
more time to eliminate the problems earlier about teams showing up on the field motorless or in pieces, etc.

My only disagreement with kit first, challenge 2nd: building a playing field- i think that is something major that if it can be done in advance, it would really help.

Maybe.. the could send the kit and a book on how to construct the field but not tell you what objects (balls, tubes, floppies, footballs) are on the field or your objective (alliances or no, specific scoring sections for teams, etc.)

How bout that?



__________________
This message was archived from an earlier forum system. Some information may have been left out. Start new discussion in the current forums, and refer back to these threads when necessary.
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 23-06-2002, 23:17
archiver archiver is offline
Forum Archival System
#0047 (ChiefDelphi)
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Pontiac, MI
Posts: 21,214
archiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond repute
1 disagreement, 1 total and complete agreement

Posted by Daniel.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Student on team #192, Gunn Robotics Team, from Henry M Gunn Senior High School and NASA Ames.

Posted on 7/29/99 11:13 AM MST


In Reply to: agreement, disagreement, and a revised possible idea posted by colleen on 7/29/99 9:34 AM MST:



Once again I see where you're coming from... =)

I simply feel this is nothing more than giving people a longer production period, with the nerve-wracking addition that you don't know how many of what motors you're gonna be able to use. I think it would just feel like you're chained down, and that's no fun...

The last thing you wrote I love. I think it's a great idea. In fact, it sounds kind of familiar...I think someone's mentioned something along those lines on these forums before. Anyway, the point is, that addresses the issue you have of building the playing field on your own time, and it addresses my issue of teaching the components to rookie members. I'm likin' it...

In fact, it's probably going to give people a pretty good idea on how high their robot will have to reach and what kind of surfaces it will need to be able to conquer on the low ground. Good stuff that =)


Good revision!
-Daniel
__________________
This message was archived from an earlier forum system. Some information may have been left out. Start new discussion in the current forums, and refer back to these threads when necessary.
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 23-06-2002, 23:17
archiver archiver is offline
Forum Archival System
#0047 (ChiefDelphi)
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Pontiac, MI
Posts: 21,214
archiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond repute
1 + 1 = 2

Posted by Jon.

Engineer on team #190, Gompei, from Mass Academy of Math and Science and Worcester Polytechnic Institute.

Posted on 7/29/99 1:07 PM MST


In Reply to: 1 disagreement, 1 total and complete agreement posted by Daniel on 7/29/99 11:13 AM MST:



I like sending out the playing field instructions so that it doesn't cut into Crunch Time. This would give teams a little more manpower to direct toward robot design and strategies.

I see where Daniel is coming from, giving out all of the rules probably would be more stressful and less helpful than previously thought...

As for sending out the kits early... interesting idea, i'm still divided on it... the question becomes one of logistics then... teams can keep the electronics until September at the latest is it? can't remember... anyways, it becomes a race against time for FIRST to check the components and repackage them... can someone shed some light (and a hard date on the electronics' return to FIRST) on this issue?

-jonathan


__________________
This message was archived from an earlier forum system. Some information may have been left out. Start new discussion in the current forums, and refer back to these threads when necessary.
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 23-06-2002, 23:17
archiver archiver is offline
Forum Archival System
#0047 (ChiefDelphi)
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Pontiac, MI
Posts: 21,214
archiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond repute
November I think

Posted by Kate.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Engineer on team #190, Gompei, from Mass Academy of Math and Science and Worcester Polytechnic Institute.

Posted on 7/29/99 2:05 PM MST


In Reply to: 1 + 1 = 2 posted by Jon on 7/29/99 1:07 PM MST:



: I liI'm almost positive that it's November that we hafta return the controls by.. but I can go visit my friends on the first floor at FIRST and ask them about it.. Right now, I know there's someone working on separating the returned stuff.. Disassembling playing fields.. sorting stuff and checking batteries.. I'll post more when I find out.. later

-KATE-
Eat, Sleep, Dream FIRST.
__________________
This message was archived from an earlier forum system. Some information may have been left out. Start new discussion in the current forums, and refer back to these threads when necessary.
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 23-06-2002, 23:17
archiver archiver is offline
Forum Archival System
#0047 (ChiefDelphi)
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Pontiac, MI
Posts: 21,214
archiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 1 + 1 = 2

Posted by colleen.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Other on team #?, Actually, I'm a FIRST-aholic, from an undecided team for the year 2000 and I'm taking invitations :-).

Posted on 7/29/99 9:40 PM MST


In Reply to: 1 + 1 = 2 posted by Jon on 7/29/99 1:07 PM MST:




i think it's september sometime too..

well.. controls are a given.. they could ship those at a later date- i dn't really think that many teams are in immediate need of them in the 1st week or two.. lack of controls would limit how much you can do too.. i wouldn't think it would b a problem to just ship those later..


__________________
This message was archived from an earlier forum system. Some information may have been left out. Start new discussion in the current forums, and refer back to these threads when necessary.
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 23-06-2002, 23:17
archiver archiver is offline
Forum Archival System
#0047 (ChiefDelphi)
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Pontiac, MI
Posts: 21,214
archiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond repute
Driver practice

Posted by Kate.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Engineer on team #190, Gompei, from Mass Academy of Math and Science and Worcester Polytechnic Institute.

Posted on 7/29/99 9:49 PM MST


In Reply to: Re: 1 + 1 = 2 posted by colleen on 7/29/99 9:40 PM MST:



I think that it's a plus to get the controls the same time as the rest of the kit and stuff.. You can rig the controls up to the robot from the year before so kids can play around with the robot to see if they would even like driving.. Even though all the mechanisms wouldn't be the same.. You hafta get used to driving the robot when it's coming at you.. It's good practice for anyone interested in being a driver until the new robot gets built..

-KATE-
Eat, Sleep, Dream FIRST.
__________________
This message was archived from an earlier forum system. Some information may have been left out. Start new discussion in the current forums, and refer back to these threads when necessary.
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 23-06-2002, 23:17
archiver archiver is offline
Forum Archival System
#0047 (ChiefDelphi)
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Pontiac, MI
Posts: 21,214
archiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond reputearchiver has a reputation beyond repute
Re: An idea for the 2000 games..(is six weeks enough?)

Posted by Dodd Stacy.

Engineer on team #95, Lebanon Robotics Team, from Lebanon High School and CRREL/CREARE.

Posted on 7/29/99 2:50 PM MST


In Reply to: An idea for the 2000 games..(is six weeks enough?) posted by colleen on 7/28/99 1:26 PM MST:



Good ideas and discussions all on this thread. Here's my slant:

1) FIRST makes available on the web the list of kit materials, component performance specs, additional hardware, etc., and the manual sections relating to the RC system and wiring up the electronics from LAST YEAR'S GAME at the time of registration for this year's game. This gives the rookie teams an opportunity to familiarize with the 'typical' components and to come up to speed on the mystifying RC stuff, STAMP programming, etc. No guarantees are made about what will show up in the new kit, but the rookies at least see the stuff the veteran teams have had the chance to play with. It may be that FIRST already does leave this info up on their website - I haven't checked.

2) FIRST makes available to all at the time of registration AT LEAST the parts list for the goal (not necessarily the whole playing field and stations, etc), so that we can order the fittings, cut the pipe, and so on in advance. That way we can assemble the goal the day after kickoff, or that nite for the local insomniacs. I wouldn't mind also getting the drawing for the goal at registration, but that may not be necessary to essentially take the people-hours of goal building out of the crunch time. It's the time consuming construction - as opposed to simple assembly - as for the puck this year, that I'm not sure how to handle without getting the goal drawing early.

3) FIRST makes available to all at the time of registration the specs and source(s) of the new game objects - balls, tubes, floppies (were they weird enough?). This has been a sticky spot in the crunch time for the three years that we've played. The supplier(s) may be overwhelmed with the sudden rush of orders from all the teams. The surface treatment of the object, like the paint on the Torroid Terror tubes, may not have been fully developed by FIRST ahead of time. And the labor to fabricate objects like (those weird but wonderful) floppies can be substantial. A lot of early crunch time has been spent in the past as the teams fumble around with the game objects, discover the ambiguities in the initial specs (size, or pressure, roundness?), discover the variability in the supposedly 'standard' objects, get answers from FIRST via team updates, etc. I don't want to get too wound up here, but we wasted an incredible amount or time last year on ball manipulators while the ball size/inflation pressure issue was resolved. I think the best way to accelerate the 'object development' process is to get several hundred teams buying multiple objects and then discovering the issues of variability, etc so the specs can get zeroed in. Nobody should, in a perfect world, spend two weeks of crunch developing mechanisms to handle objects demoed at kickoff, and then have to trash that work and start over because some fundamental characteristic of the object gets revised. This applies to play strategy as well as manipulator design, so it can be a pretty big pain. So I'd like to do everything possible to shakedown the play objects in advance.

That's it. I believe that FIRST does an outstanding job in creating the rules of play each year. They miss very little, and they get better each year. The teams identify the ambiguities very quickly, and they get resolved quickly for the most part in the Team Updates. The issues of rule interpretation, they do pretty well with clarifying. Some of them - like what constitutes 'carpet damage' - will always be a bit squirrely, and we need to be prepared. Some - like when is blocking a floppy lift intentionally destructive - can't be precisely resolved by FIRST until we show up and play the game. Bottom line is I don't think we are unduely held up or misled during early crunch time by slow resolution of rule interpretation questions. If that opinion is accepted (a big IF, feel free to disagree), then there isn't a need to issue the rules early and hence define the game. We have the goal parts and the game objects, and the rookies have the old kit list and RC manual. We can drive ourselves crazy trying to guess what the game may look like, but the only jump we really get on design is thinking about how the bot might pick up, throw, squeeze, roll, stack, punt, or otherwise manipulate the new objects.

Anybody who wanted to get a jump on prototyping and developing manipulators would be free to do so, as many of us do already on chassis drive systems, with the accepted risk that the work might turn out irrelevant to the new game. There is no way to prevent early speculative development, and, frankly, this provides an opportunity for some structured skills and knowledge development before crunch time swamps all those good intentions.

Dodd


__________________
This message was archived from an earlier forum system. Some information may have been left out. Start new discussion in the current forums, and refer back to these threads when necessary.
 


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:58.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi