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#1
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Re: Competition is good
Posted by Jason Iannuzzi at 1/9/2001 2:00 PM EST
Engineer on team #11, Marauders, from Mt. Olive HS. and BASF, Rame Hart, CCM. In Reply to: Re: Competition is good Posted by Robby on 1/9/2001 9:40 AM EST: I guess we have to agree to disagree. I can live with that. It's certainly been a good discussion. I think if noone is asking the questions we're asking, we've become complacent and lost sight of the goal. |
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#2
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Re: Competition is good
Posted by Robby at 1/9/2001 5:40 PM EST
Other on team #108, The SigmaC@Ts, from AIFL and Motorola. In Reply to: Re: Competition is good Posted by Jason Iannuzzi on 1/9/2001 2:00 PM EST: Well, I can certainly agree with you there. There is only one way to find out. In just over six weeks we'll see and the "Told You So"'s will be all over this board. Hopefully they'll be more friendly than hurtful and sarcastic. Enjoy this year as much as possible, wait for next year to be what you want, and see you all then. Good luck. -Robby O |
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#3
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Re: Competition is good
Posted by Kate T190 at 1/10/2001 1:46 PM EST
Engineer on team #190, Gompei, from Mass Academy of Math and Science and Worcester Polytechnic Institute. In Reply to: Competition is good Posted by Jason Iannuzzi on 1/9/2001 8:43 AM EST: What makes you think that there won't still be cheering this year?? I'll prolly still be screaming my head off and maybe even have my warpaint again.. This competition won't change my mind any about team spirit.. It's something different this year.. It doesn't necessairly change what FIRST is trying to do to the world.. T190 XO Kate |
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#4
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It's a different kind of Excitement
Posted by Matt Leese at 1/8/2001 11:33 PM EST
Other on team #73 from Edison Technical HS and Alstom & Rochester Institute of Technology. In Reply to: Re: Excitement matters Posted by nick237 on 1/8/2001 9:27 PM EST: I think I may have just come up with a better comparison than to golf: Figure Skating. Figure skating has no head to head competition, has no contact whatsoever, and still manages to be incredibly popular. With the same group? no. Maybe, for once, Dean and company are trying to reach out to a *shudder* different group of people. Just because it's not your kind of excitement doesn't mean it's not exciting. And as far as wasting money, there's no way any money is ever wasted on a FIRST Competition. Heck, the most important part of the competition has to do with the part that takes place off the field. That's why everyone is a winner. Anyone else realize that FIRST has been increasing the number of winners over the past couple years? And remember that they still give out only one Chairman's Award. 'Cause that's where it's at. Please remember what the whole point of FIRST is: to inspire and recognize science and technology. You don't need to be BattleBots to do that. There's going to be a lot of competition this year. It's just not going to be the same as it was before. And that's okay by me. I can get excited by figuring skating and by ice hockey. Matt whose really kind of getting tired of people saying how bad this years game is before a single match has been played.....strike that......before a single robot has been built.... |
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#5
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Re: "reply" to this idea......
Posted by nick237 at 1/9/2001 10:11 PM EST
Engineer on team #237, sie h2o bots, from Watertown high school ct and sieman co. In Reply to: It's a different kind of Excitement Posted by Matt Leese on 1/8/2001 11:33 PM EST: I have an idea, how about we just design a robot on paper, submit the drawings and let dean pick a winner. The winners name could be posted on the usfirst web page and then we can wait for next years game/submission. A boring game is a boring game no matter how you play it. : I think I may have just come up with a better comparison than to golf: Figure Skating. Figure skating has no head to head competition, has no contact whatsoever, and still manages to be incredibly popular. With the same group? no. Maybe, for once, Dean and company are trying to reach out to a *shudder* different group of people. Just because it's not your kind of excitement doesn't mean it's not exciting. And as far as wasting money, there's no way any money is ever wasted on a FIRST Competition. Heck, the most important part of the competition has to do with the part that takes place off the field. That's why everyone is a winner. Anyone else realize that FIRST has been increasing the number of winners over the past couple years? And remember that they still give out only one Chairman's Award. 'Cause that's where it's at. Please remember what the whole point of FIRST is: to inspire and recognize science and technology. You don't need to be BattleBots to do that. There's going to be a lot of competition this year. It's just not going to be the same as it was before. And that's okay by me. I can get excited by figuring skating and by ice hockey. : Matt whose really kind of getting tired of people saying how bad this years game is before a single match has been played.....strike that......before a single robot has been built.... |
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#6
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Don't be so sure...
Posted by Joe Johnson at 1/9/2001 10:50 PM EST
Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems. In Reply to: Re: "reply" to this idea...... Posted by nick237 on 1/9/2001 10:11 PM EST: Nick, Have you built the ramp? We just put something together today for the first time. We happened to have a few robots around that can climb a 14 deg. incline so we tried it out. Have you actually tried balancing a robot on this sea saw thing? I have come to believe that a LOT of robots and goals are going to be tipping over. I don't know... maybe this game will be exciting after all. Time will tell. As for me and my money (and time and energy), I am betting on my fellow FIRST folks to design and build some awesome machines. We are going to make this crazy thing work. Will you join us? Joe J. |
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#7
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Why must you be such a critic??
Posted by Kate T190 at 1/10/2001 2:54 PM EST
Engineer on team #190, Gompei, from Mass Academy of Math and Science and Worcester Polytechnic Institute. In Reply to: Re: "reply" to this idea...... Posted by nick237 on 1/9/2001 10:11 PM EST: It's wonderful that you're voicing your thoughts to everyone, but I think that you should take a step back and actually listen to what everyone else is saying.. Try to see what they're trying to say.. Walk a mile in their shoes.. Pretend that you're back in high school.. Involved in FIRST.. Would you really be getting that much out of putting a design on a piece of paper and giving it to Dean?? Or would you get more from learning how to encorporate different mechanisms such that they all fit within the footprint physically?? Try to think about what you're saying and pretend you're a student in high school.. You tell me which way is best to inspire kids about science and technology.. T190 XO Kate |
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#8
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Re: Why must you be such a critic??
Posted by nick237 at 1/10/2001 10:47 PM EST
Engineer on team #237, sie h2o bots, from Watertown high school ct and sieman co. In Reply to: Why must you be such a critic?? Posted by Kate T190 on 1/10/2001 2:54 PM EST: I voice my concernes because thats what they are, I base this year on the record of last years efforts. The procces of FIRST is more than the learning curve that the students receive during the year, you have to include the adult curve as well. A senerio for the year as you know includes a heart stopping effort of begging funds from anyone who will listen and donate. Its a year af planning and trying new ideas. It is a death defying 6 weeks of hell as the team works hundreds of long hours into the night getting all the ideas to work. It is the pride in the team of knowing the success of their effort when everything works but most of all its seing the faces of the team members as they celebrate their achievments AGAINST other teams that they in the arena AGAINST. Two teams...One field....One game.....One winner Thats what we dont have. We won our regional last year because we faught hard and played a great game coupled with an amazing aliance "131" and every member of our team remembers every second that we were on the field. They also remember every nut, bolt, screw and washer that got our robot into the finals and up to the winners circle. I am very disapointed this year as I believe we have lost a criticaly important part of the FIRST program and I dont think there will be the foot stomping fist pounding lung screaming excitement that every year we have grown to love. After the first few games many students will vanish to the sites of Disney because they are bored. The stands will be asleep compared to last year, so if I see you snoozing I will give you a nudge. One things for sure, next year will be death and mayhem again as FIRST tries to errase this years memory of disapointments, but many new teams that joined this year may not be back. We shall see. Even though I hate this years game I can promiss you that our team will build an amazing robot that will go out on the field and do the very best it can, our design that will be finalised tomorrow will stun every team there, and at the finals we "shall" be one of the teams standing proudly in front of the masses because we are a team but I personaly still hate the game. Nick237 : It's wonderful that you're voicing your thoughts to everyone, but I think that you should take a step back and actually listen to what everyone else is saying.. Try to see what they're trying to say.. Walk a mile in their shoes.. Pretend that you're back in high school.. Involved in FIRST.. Would you really be getting that much out of putting a design on a piece of paper and giving it to Dean?? Or would you get more from learning how to encorporate different mechanisms such that they all fit within the footprint physically?? Try to think about what you're saying and pretend you're a student in high school.. You tell me which way is best to inspire kids about science and technology.. : T190 XO : Kate |
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#9
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How the game might turn out to be...
Posted by Ken Leung at 1/8/2001 11:20 AM EST
Student on team #192, Gunn Robotics Team, from Henry M. Gunn Senior High School. In Reply to: Want a real-world tournament comparsion to this year's game? Posted by Nate Smith on 1/8/2001 7:42 AM EST: : One thing that popped into my head yesterday as I was thinking of how to explain this year's game competition...and I thought that while in the past, the competition was similar to the head-to-head sports, this year seems to be more similar to a golf tournament...while you don't directly compete against the other teams, thereby eliminating defense, you're still competing against everybody for the best score...just my thoughts... I see lots of people compare this game to golf, but I think at golf, there are so many variables that the player usually do not reproduce the same result. But in here, if you have a perfect robot, then once your alliance find the best strategy, you are going to do it all the time. And so, once you are in the finals with your partners, all you have to do it play a few games and everyone will know what's the capability of your alliance, and will be able to tell who's going to win. So the games will be too boring to watch, which is what lots of people complaining about instead of saying how the competition isn't interesting. But of course, at qualifing rounds, you will have random partners, inperfect robots, and the competition will actually be fun. So I think when judging this year's game, you have to think about design of the game and the turn-out of the game seperatly. |
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#10
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Re: Want a real-world tournament comparsion to this year's game?
Posted by Joe Taylor at 1/8/2001 12:18 PM EST
Engineer on team #461, West Side Boiler Invasion, from West Lafayette High School and Purdue University / Schlomberger. In Reply to: Want a real-world tournament comparsion to this year's game? Posted by Nate Smith on 1/8/2001 7:42 AM EST: Ya- and which would you rather watch? the PGA tour or the super bowl? |
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#11
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Re: Want a real-world tournament comparsion to this year's game?
Posted by Matt Leese at 1/8/2001 1:18 PM EST
Other on team #73 from Edison Technical HS and Alstom & Rochester Institute of Technology. In Reply to: Re: Want a real-world tournament comparsion to this year's game? Posted by Joe Taylor on 1/8/2001 12:18 PM EST: : Ya- and which would you rather watch? the PGA tour or the super bowl? Well, both have their merits. It's the same deal with the difference between Battle Bots and FIRST. They both can be exciting. Just because one is different from the other doesn't mean one is inherently better or worse. The main thing is they appeal to a different audience. And frankly, I'm getting tired of everyone telling me how boring the game will be *before* a single match has been played. Wait for judgement until you can actually give it. Matt |
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#12
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Re: Want a real-world tournament comparsion to this year's game?
Posted by Nate Smith at 1/8/2001 6:40 PM EST
Other on team #66, GM Powertrain/Willow Run HS, from Eastern Michigan University and GM Powertrain. In Reply to: Re: Want a real-world tournament comparsion to this year's game? Posted by Joe Taylor on 1/8/2001 12:18 PM EST: : Ya- and which would you rather watch? the PGA tour or the super bowl? That was just one example... |
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#13
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Enough is enough
Posted by Kate T190 at 1/8/2001 3:37 PM EST
Engineer on team #190, Gompei, from Mass Academy of Math and Science and Worcester Polytechnic Institute. In Reply to: Enough real world, Keith. Posted by Erin on 1/8/2001 6:55 AM EST: It's absolutely wonderful that everyone posts their opinions on this forum.. But by no means is this a place to bash each other or FIRST.. This is a place for constructive criticism if there are things that people don't agree with.. While I don't believe that Keith was right in how he adressed the problem, Erin didn't fix the problem with her mockery.. T190 XO Kate |
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#14
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Main Point
Posted by KeithL at 1/8/2001 4:23 PM EST
Other from the CHAOS131 alumni. What will the future bring?... In Reply to: Enough real world, Keith. Posted by Erin on 1/8/2001 6:55 AM EST: Erin, This posting wasn't meant to put down Dean or his colleagues. It was meant to be humorous. I have a lot of respect for them and what they have done for the first community. The real world is the main reason Dean changed the game to how it is Erin. Now rethink what i wrote, and then respond to that. Do we really need the competition to involve everyone working together in addition to our six weeks of building to learn more about the real world? Personally, I don't think it's going to impact me or others the way Dean intends it to. I enjoy head to head competition, as does the majority. I wish FIRST would stick with that. I'm just stating my opinion, why don't you do the same, and not tell me what you think about me and how I went about making my opinion of the game Erin. And yes, I did share my opinions with people, especially when I was at the kickoff at the center of NH. OK, enough arguing, I just wanted to get out my thoughts. I still love FIRST, I still am going to stick with FIRST and I hope everyone has an awesome year. I especially hope it turns out to be more fun and exciting than some of us think. Wooooo!!!! Good luck everyone! -Keith |
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#15
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Re: It took guts, yeah Kieth...
Posted by nick237 at 1/8/2001 10:26 PM EST
Engineer on team #237, sie h2o bots, from Watertown high school ct and sieman co. In Reply to: Enough real world, Keith. Posted by Erin on 1/8/2001 6:55 AM EST: We are all entitled to our opinions and while we all differ on our love of this years " GAME " we still need to express our thoughts. By telling what we think can only make the game better this year and next. Kieth took a step that said what he feels and thinks, he enjoyed " as do others " the thrill of combat, He and I expected a game that pits teams against teams on the same field at the same time. FIRST is about Improvement and Inspiration but most of all its about comunication and Kieth comunicated his concernes that this game " as I read it " STINKS. And in my opinion he is right. I have less enthusiasmn for this years game than last year. Good Job Kieth. nick237 : Keith, : While your comments are always welcome, by me, they are currently not necessarily appreciated. Last year, I was the first person to find the downfalls of the game, but I wasn't around anyone who could explain it to me. This year, I was with my team, and Ken Patton (with Norm Peralta on the phone via kickoff) along with my teammates and other GM and Northern staff, well, we were presented the kickoff celebration by video. We deciphered the game like it was an algebra problem. And personally, I think that maybe you would have found out, too, by sharing it with others, that it is actually kindof cool. But maybe you are still attached to 2000? Some people have a problem with that. I thought as an alumni I would, but I didn't. In fact, I LOVE THIS YEARS GAME. Yeah sure, it has downfalls, but I think it will be cool none the less. : Oh yeah and by the way, I don't think "Dean-O" and one of MIT's respected mech. eng. professors along with countless engineers could have been wrong. But maybe you are. Where is your degree? : Erin : "The first person who really likes the game?" |
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