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Unread 24-06-2002, 03:27
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Re: 340 was a DISNEY limit this year

Posted by Andrew Rudolph at 04/11/2001 2:11 PM EST


Student on team #168, Charger-Lightning Robotics, from North Miami Beach/Michael Krop Senior High School and NASA Kennedy Space Center/Cordis/HPE Automation.


In Reply to: Re: 340 was a DISNEY limit this year
Posted by Matt Leese on 04/11/2001 12:06 PM EST:



An easy way to fix the problem is instead of having one biiiig pit have smaller ones, like little regional facilities, the division system is made perfect for this. But they could still have the big stadium for awards and whatnot.

andrew

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Re: 340 was a DISNEY limit this year

Posted by Deej- T190 at 04/11/2001 2:20 PM EST


Engineer on team #190, Gompeii, from Mass Academy and WPI.


In Reply to: Re: 340 was a DISNEY limit this year
Posted by Andrew Rudolph on 04/11/2001 2:11 PM EST:



: An easy way to fix the problem is instead of having one biiiig pit have smaller ones, like little regional facilities, the division system is made perfect for this. But they could still have the big stadium for awards and whatnot.

: andrew

HAHAHA he said whatnot, which is the mascot for Team 190's name....our hampster Whatnot!!!!!!! Way to be man


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Re: 340 was a DISNEY limit this year

Posted by David Kelso at 04/11/2001 3:19 PM EST


Coach on team #131, C.H.A.O.S.-, from Central High School and OSRAM SYLVANIA/ Fleet .


In Reply to: Re: 340 was a DISNEY limit this year
Posted by Andrew Rudolph on 04/11/2001 2:11 PM EST:




Maybe they have to revisit having two events in Florida. They could use Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Sunday, Monday, Tuesday. The country could be divided into two major divisions. The winners of these two events would meet elsewhere for the Finals. But think about it this way, we were very close to that this year. You only played the teams in another division if you won yours. Using the Epcot setup for two events would be much more cost effective and take the pressure off all the motels in the area.



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Re: 340 was a DISNEY limit this year

Posted by Chris Dibble at 04/11/2001 3:59 PM EST


Student on team #102, Dextrous Gearheads, from Somerville High School and Ortho Clinical Diagnostics.


In Reply to: Re: 340 was a DISNEY limit this year
Posted by Matt Leese on 04/11/2001 12:06 PM EST:



I was thinking... there was still alot of parking lot space left at the site this year. What if there were two individual nationals (perhaps 6 or 8 divisions) at the same site, the winners playing on Einstein? It would be almost the same as this year but bigger.


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Re: 340 was a DISNEY ;; format, space, epcot; ally picking

Posted by soap108 at 04/11/2001 4:44 PM EST


Engineer on team #108, SigmaC@T, from Dillard & Taravella HS and Motorola.


In Reply to: 340 was a DISNEY limit this year
Posted by Joe Johnson on 04/11/2001 11:35 AM EST:




Yep, more discussion is good. Aside- it's nice to have the problem of too many teams, as opposed to too few. What happens if Dean's dream of every US high school having a team happens? Yikes! An NCAA-like model is more than likely on the horizon...in fact i'll bet a mt. dew that this yrs divisions is a stepping stone to that kind of format...

Yes, I remember there was a limit established in January on the first website about event capacities...I imagine they took the ~270 last year, approximated the growth this year, and finally resorted to ~340...The pit probably could have held a few (~10) more teams, but that's it (unless they goto 8'x8' spaces). We likely peaked for this particular section of their parking lot...but there is a lot more space on their grounds that doesn't get used much...also limit factor is hotel space; amt of persons at team party; bus transportation; $; more...

also-
What is kinda interesting is the teams that shipped their robot to EPCOT without having signed up (paid the 5000 and gotten on the official list). Some teams (even veteran ones) thought that winning a regional meant they go to EPCOT automatically....yikes!

p.s. Throwing this one out there too: What if the 5th Ally (so-called alternate ally) was able to be picked from the entire pool and not just within division....ideas, thoughts?

later,
;~)
KA - 108


: Disney was the party that limited the size of the Nationals this year.

: Perhaps they will change their mind for future years, but I have heard rumors to the contrary (not from anyone like Dean or Woodie, just folks who claim to be in the know). I don't know whether to believe them or not, but it seems at least possible that 340 is the max that Disney is willing to go.

: In any case, the possibility is worth discussing.

: Joe J.


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Unread 24-06-2002, 03:28
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It's not that complicated! See the NCAA!

Posted by Mike Sklar at 04/11/2001 2:43 PM EST


Engineer on team #21, ComBBAT , from Astronaut H.S. and Titusville H.S. and Brevard Community College and Boeing Company and NASA-KSC.


In Reply to: a modest proposal...
Posted by Joe Johnson on 04/11/2001 8:48 AM EST:



Why is a true national championship with real qualifications to get there so complicated? The FIRST community never seems to learn anything from the much more popular, and much larger world of sports. Colleges (hundreds of them) make last minute plans to get to the next regional or national championship. High Schools win at district events and have 1-2 weeks (or less) to get to the state championships.

FIRST could easily pre-arrange hotel and flight arrangements (at an attractive rate due to bargaining for a single deal with such high volume). Once the teams qualify all that would be needed is a set of names and each could make financial arrangements to pay the airline/hotel vendors.

And besides this would force FIRST to deal with the issue of obtaining assistance/support from airlines and hotels and make the cost of FIRST more reasonable. This has been promised but never done.
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Doesn't work that way now....

Posted by Kevin Sevcik at 04/11/2001 6:32 PM EST


Other on team #57, Leopards, from BT Washington and the High School for Engineering Professions and Exxon, Kellog Brown & Root, Powell Electrical.


In Reply to: It's not that complicated! See the NCAA!
Posted by Mike Sklar on 04/11/2001 2:43 PM EST:



I'll say it again. This competition is just too big for FIRST to provide this kind of help. CAn you even begin to picture what FIRST would have to pre-arrange to get this to work? First, you've got plane tickets to Florida for 200-300 teams coming from across the nation, plus Brazil and Canada. You don't know where they're flying from or how many people they'll be taking. Try pre-arranging that.

"Well we don't know where the people are coming from, how many will be coming, or what airlines are in there area, but there's gonna be 4000+ and the competition is 2 weeks away. Can you help us? Hello? Hello?"

Similar problems for the hotel rooms. You don't know how many people will be staying, or where they will be staying. Presumably FIRST will still offer cheap, off-Disney hotels as options to the poorer teams, so you don't have a clue where people will be staying.

And where is the staff that's going to organize this whole thing? They're out running around setting up regionals and nationals. They don't have time for any of this.

Frankly, high schools can manage this feat because they can ride buses and are going to small cities with relatively lots of hotels. College teams can manage for similar reasons, plus they have more money to play with. plus, the college teams probably get bonuses to the budget for going to championships.

Basically, in my opinion, regionals as qualifiers would just me too expensive and troublesome with the current schedule of events.

But in addition, if FIRST could actually work out pre-arranged hotel and airline reservations, then why aren't they doing so now? Now atleast they have the advantage of knowing how many people are coming and where they're coming from. that would make it even easier. So why isn't FIRST doing this now, unless it's completely impractical?
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another proposal

Posted by Ken Patton at 04/11/2001 4:20 PM EST


Engineer on team #65, The Huskie Brigade, from Pontiac Northern High School and GM Powertrain.


In Reply to: Way back there. Size of Nationals, and a solution
Posted by Kevin Sevcik on 04/11/2001 2:39 AM EST:



Building on David Kelso's comments...

One solution to the problem of the Florida event being too big would be to change the event into a series of regional-sized and regional-status events over several weeks. Only 500 teams? Have two events over two weekends. 1000 teams? Have four events over four weekends. This helps growth by allowing teams to tell prospective students "you get to go to Florida if you make the team," and it allows Disney to spread out the number of visitors as FIRST grows.

THEN, we could have a qualifiers-only national event at a spectator-and-TV friendly venue like the Dean-dome in North Carolina, Madison Square Garden, or the Palace of Auburn Hills. Hotel reservations for the qualifiers could be blocked out in advance, but airplane reservations would still need to be made after qualification (just like sports teams do it now).

Ken



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Depriving teams of National experiance

Posted by Mimi Brown at 04/11/2001 8:01 PM EST


Student on team #128, The Botcats, from Grandview Heights High School.


In Reply to: Way back there. Size of Nationals, and a solution
Posted by Kevin Sevcik on 04/11/2001 2:39 AM EST:



I like the plan, but qualifying for nats? what is a team has a lousy regional & is only doing that one regional?? Nationals is the greatest...No one should have to miss it because their team didnt qualify.


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