Go to Post Regardless of whether the max allowed weight is 10 pounds or 1,000 pounds, everyone is going to need at least one ounce more. - gblake [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Technical > Technical Discussion
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-05-2003, 11:29
Kris Verdeyen's Avatar
Kris Verdeyen Kris Verdeyen is offline
LSR Emcee/Alamo Game Announcer
FRC #0118 (Robonauts)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 699
Kris Verdeyen has a reputation beyond reputeKris Verdeyen has a reputation beyond reputeKris Verdeyen has a reputation beyond reputeKris Verdeyen has a reputation beyond reputeKris Verdeyen has a reputation beyond reputeKris Verdeyen has a reputation beyond reputeKris Verdeyen has a reputation beyond reputeKris Verdeyen has a reputation beyond reputeKris Verdeyen has a reputation beyond reputeKris Verdeyen has a reputation beyond reputeKris Verdeyen has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally posted by oneangrydwarf
what do grammar arguments have to do with stopping conflicting signals?
As it turns out, everything. You see, grammar and spelling are important. As smart as computhief might be (and upon decoding his posts, it turns out there is some valuable information in there), I have a conflicting signal (wut, u) that his post isn't worth reading. So you see, one signal says, "Intelligent statement, pay attention," while another says, "Nothing important here, ignore".

You see, conflict.
__________________
...Only a few people are awake and they live in a state of constant total amazement. -JP Shanley, Joe vs. the Volcano
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-05-2003, 13:14
ChrisH's Avatar Unsung FIRST Hero
ChrisH ChrisH is offline
Generally Useless
FRC #0330 (Beach 'Bots)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1998
Location: Hermosa Beach, CA
Posts: 1,230
ChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally posted by oneangrydwarf
Can we get this thread back on topic? I mean come on folks, what do grammar arguments have to do with stopping conflicting signals, or technical discussion..
Grammar and spelling are formalized ways of formating a wide variety of information. By using proper grammar and spelling you reduce the chance that your message will be misunderstood or ignored as noise. You also come across as at least as educated and intelligent as you really are, rather than as an ignoramus who could not communciate a simple thought even if by chance he should have one.

While this is a bit off topic for this thread, the attempt is being made to correct the behavior of somebody whose valid inputs are often ignored because they are hard to decipher. It is appropriate for a gentle rebuke to occur here where the error occured. Some of us who follow this thread are expressing our desire that communication in it remain clear to those of us who are accustomed to speaking and writing standard American English. It seems to me that computhief263 is merely trying to save on keystrokes at the expense of clarity. This is a disservice to his readers and causes us to lower our opinion of his educational attainments.

Now that at least three of us have made our objections known, we can drop the subject and return to weightier matters...

I hope that sounds really stuffy, I was trying.
__________________
Christopher H Husmann, PE

"Who is John Galt?"
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-05-2003, 13:31
Amanda Morrison's Avatar Unsung FIRST Hero
Amanda Morrison Amanda Morrison is offline
16 awesome years of FRC!
no team
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,864
Amanda Morrison has a reputation beyond reputeAmanda Morrison has a reputation beyond reputeAmanda Morrison has a reputation beyond reputeAmanda Morrison has a reputation beyond reputeAmanda Morrison has a reputation beyond reputeAmanda Morrison has a reputation beyond reputeAmanda Morrison has a reputation beyond reputeAmanda Morrison has a reputation beyond reputeAmanda Morrison has a reputation beyond reputeAmanda Morrison has a reputation beyond reputeAmanda Morrison has a reputation beyond repute
I agree. From an English major, grammar, spelling, and punctuation are indeed important.

This can be further debated in a different thread, as this is obviously non-technical, and it has been brought up several times before... This is a dead horse that has been beaten one too many times and leads everyone nowhere. We'll just go on the basis of - please spell as correctly as you are able and rememeber that 'ur' and 'n', etc., are not words. You make it easier on the Chief Delphi community when you make your posts clear, concise, to the point, and complying with the English language.

With that said, everyone, you are now returned to your regularly scheduled technical forum.
__________________
Director of Operations, VEX Robotics, Inc.
Alumna - Teams 71, 1020, 1720, 148
2002 World Champions (Team 71) | 2008 World Champions (Team 148)
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-05-2003, 13:33
D.J. Fluck
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally posted by Hinkel Y.
You guys had an electrical team? How big was your team?
2 electrical students, 2 software/electrical kids

Our team has around 19 students...
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-05-2003, 18:34
Marc P. Marc P. is offline
I fix stuff.
AKA: βetamarc
no team
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Rookie Year: 1999
Location: Watertown, CT
Posts: 997
Marc P. has a reputation beyond reputeMarc P. has a reputation beyond reputeMarc P. has a reputation beyond reputeMarc P. has a reputation beyond reputeMarc P. has a reputation beyond reputeMarc P. has a reputation beyond reputeMarc P. has a reputation beyond reputeMarc P. has a reputation beyond reputeMarc P. has a reputation beyond reputeMarc P. has a reputation beyond reputeMarc P. has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Marc P.
From what I saw of the setup at Nationals, all radio chanels are predefined on a per-station basis, and are tested regularly for proper communication. Each station's Arena Controller was labeled with a specific designated channel (set in dip switches I believe) such that when the OI is plugged in, it's pre-set to a constant channel for that station. All that remains is the activation of the Robot Controller, which scans all frequencies for it's team number, and auto-switches itself to the proper channel it recieves.

There were 5 fields, with 8 stations per field, yielding 40 channels. However, 8 were not in use during qualifications (from Einstein).

I believe they mapped out ahead of time which fields use which channels for which stations (A1, B1, C1, D1, A2, B2, C2, D2).
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-05-2003, 18:54
DanL DanL is offline
Crusty Mentor
FRC #0097
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Somerville, MA
Posts: 682
DanL is just really niceDanL is just really niceDanL is just really niceDanL is just really niceDanL is just really nice
Send a message via AIM to DanL
hmm... Jason, good job on asking that question. Never thought of the whole channel issue in terms of nat's, and your question brought out some of the cool behind-the-scenes work that goes into the controllers. I think its been pretty much answered in depth, but kudos for asking.

Although I do wish people would have read your full post before replying with stuff that you made clear you knew in your origional post.
__________________
Dan L
Team 97 Mentor
Software Engineer, Vecna Technologies
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-05-2003, 19:20
JasonStern JasonStern is offline
Mentor
FRC #1123 (AIM Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 65
JasonStern is on a distinguished road
Thanks for all the info everyone! I really appreciate it. I wonder if we can get FIRST and IFI to release some sort of documentation about behind the scenes tech that goes on at compitions for those of us who are interested . FIRST is all about science and technology, right? Well, teaching kids about the setup behind the fields and all the technology that goes into make everything run smoothly can only help this goal along... As for replying about other stuff, its ok. I confused some people (I have a bad habit of that ) so they thought I wanted information on the competition port.....
__________________
Que será será
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-05-2003, 21:09
Josh Hambright's Avatar
Josh Hambright Josh Hambright is offline
{Error Processing Custom Title}
AKA: oneangrydwarf/jtosh
no team (old school gangsta)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,421
Josh Hambright has a reputation beyond reputeJosh Hambright has a reputation beyond reputeJosh Hambright has a reputation beyond reputeJosh Hambright has a reputation beyond reputeJosh Hambright has a reputation beyond reputeJosh Hambright has a reputation beyond reputeJosh Hambright has a reputation beyond reputeJosh Hambright has a reputation beyond reputeJosh Hambright has a reputation beyond reputeJosh Hambright has a reputation beyond reputeJosh Hambright has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Josh Hambright
From what i understand the reason that IFI hasn't been more forthcoming with information about the specifics of the competition port and the way they run competitions is because one of the ways that they are able to recoup some costs is by renting out the Competition Controllers (Arena Controllers) to off season competitions.

That is why alot of people were surprised when they released the documentation for the competition port this year, as they have always been protective of that information.


But yes it would be cool if they did release full documentation on the whole system.
__________________
Former 461 Student/Mentor. Former 1272 and 1018 Mentor. Team 1555 Super-Fan.
Science and Engineering Can Open New Doors. --S.E.C.O.N.D.--
=~=!=@= #=$=%=
Co-Founder IndianaFIRST

Share your FIRST photos on Flickr!
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 21-05-2003, 22:41
Lloyd Burns Lloyd Burns is offline
Registered User
FRC #1246 (Agincourt Robotics)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1997
Location: Toronto
Posts: 292
Lloyd Burns is an unknown quantity at this point
IFI released information about the kill and channel selection options early on - Dr Joe's Yellow Dongle paper was out not long after First started using the new controller. You can have off season comps, and test your robot with this info.

The info about the auton_mode and the way to use it for testing iwhile required for testing programming, is new this year, so has not been released until this year.

IFI releases info to allow you to do things you must do to get ready for the contest, but the rest is proprietary, For instance, the standards for the communications between OI and arena controller are still clouded in secrecy, and no one is talking about pin 1 ....

<whisked away by IFI operatives before he could ...... oops, they're bac.......>
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 23-05-2003, 08:19
Unsung FIRST Hero
Al Skierkiewicz Al Skierkiewicz is offline
Broadcast Eng/Chief Robot Inspector
AKA: Big Al WFFA 2005
FRC #0111 (WildStang)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: Wheeling, IL
Posts: 10,811
Al Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally posted by Marc P.
From what I saw of the setup at Nationals, all radio channels are predefined on a per-station basis, and are tested regularly for proper communication. All that remains is the activation of the Robot Controller, which scans all frequencies for it's team number, and auto-switches itself to the proper channel it receives.
As we stated before, there was evidence at regionals that a team setting up for the next match and had plugged in their controller were likely to interfere with the teams currently playing on the field. Since this was more apt to happen during practice sessions, the interference was observed more during those matches. We had evidence on several occasions where robots stopped functioning due to corrupt data packets. We concluded that should enough bad data packets be received, the controller would default to a shutdown condition. A power cycle or reset would restore the original program loop and the controller would then search, acquire, and function normally if the offending interference were no longer present.
This is why it is so important for teams to only use tether in the pits. In confined areas during regionals, teams using radio links in the pits can have an effect on robots in competition.
Now, my two cents on the abbreviation issue. As a ham radio operator using Morse code, abbreviations are able to get your message through in a shorter time. The transfer rate, though, is in the 5-13 words per minute range. In a medium where the transfer is faster than the spoken word, please make full use of the language and make yourself heard and understood.
P.S. Spell check is a blessing too.
__________________
Good Luck All. Learn something new, everyday!
Al
WB9UVJ
www.wildstang.org
________________________
Storming the Tower since 1996.

Last edited by Al Skierkiewicz : 23-05-2003 at 08:22.
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-05-2003, 00:37
AlbertW's Avatar
AlbertW AlbertW is offline
harker robotics :. 1072
AKA: Aonic
#1072 (Harker Robotics)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 323
AlbertW is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to AlbertW
for most ISM frequency ranges, 3 channels apart are enough to prevent interference, so if you have a phone on channel one, set your wifi base station on channel 5, whatever else you have on channel 9, etc
__________________

We were the first seeded first-year team at a first-year FIRST regional.
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How much planning goes into your robot? Jnadke General Forum 41 29-01-2006 21:29
serious problem found - robot controller resets when jarred! KenWittlief Electrical 23 19-03-2003 13:30
WASH Palm scouting at the Championship Mike Soukup Scouting 2 19-04-2002 15:14
Index of team's post about their robot... Ken Leung Robot Showcase 1 20-03-2002 17:10
about how Drive Train push the robot... shouldn't the force accelerate the robot? Ken Leung Technical Discussion 12 26-11-2001 09:39


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 21:17.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi