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Unread 16-02-2004, 09:20
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Re: pic: Team 254 robot....almost there!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Kixmiller
I agree that FIRST is intended to help spread and increase engineering knowledge, but the idea of two established teams sharing an identical design seems to have skewed the concept. I feel personally that FIRST should be about each individual team sharing the work load and the joys and the pains that come along with engineering and manufacturing its own unique design. While the idea of developing partnerships and friendships among colleagues and potential opponents is novel and advantageous, I feel that the fabrication, design, and communication that occurs as a single team creates and competes with its own robot cannot and should not be replaced.

I some what disagree but then again it is all about perspective...if you are a single team and work with a few mentors to build a robot that is considered a fine course of action in FIRST, and when I see this great partnership between two teams I think of it as they are mentoring each other. About building components for each other I also think this is fine. Knowing that at most of the regional I have been to at some point I am working on a robot that isn't mine, and if you team has ever gotten things machined or welded at another company, I believe that all of these examples follow what these two teams are doing. I think that this is a wonderful collaboration of minds and look forward to what they will produce in the future.
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Unread 16-02-2004, 09:35
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Re: pic: Team 254 robot....almost there!

Quote:
5.3.2.2 Cost Determination
The cost of raw material obtained by a team + the cost of non-team labor expended to have the
material processed further. Team member processing labor is not included. Example: A team
purchases steel bar stock for $10.00 and has it machined by a local machine shop that donates its 2
hours of expended labor. The team must include the estimated normal cost of the labor as if it were
paid to the machine shop, and add it to the $10.00. Exception Examples: If the team members
themselves did the actual machining, there would be no associated labor cost. If the machine shop
were part of the team, its labor cost would not apply.
Does this rule mean that the two teams have to charge each other standard hourly machining rates for the parts each made for the other? What about accounting for non-team member design, programming, assembly time? If I'm reading the rules correctly, that's the case.

Thoughts?
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Unread 16-02-2004, 09:43
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I don't know how I feel...

I am still thinking it over, but my first impression is that generally I don't like it. I know there are some "real world" parallels, but I don't think they really are that close of a comparison.

I know that Team Ford has made some steps toward collaboration and coordination of chassis. I suppose other have done similar things to one extent or another.

Here is the nub of my concern: What would people think of all 16 Delphi teams having the machine that the Chief Delphi Team is making this year (or the Delphi Knights, or the TechnoKats, or whatever)?

CEO's love to have winning teams. We all (including CEO's) know that there is a huge luck factor in winning the Championship. Having 16 chances to win is better than having just one.

I worry that the pressure to win may increase if this type of collaboration becomes more common -- up to this point, we have always been able to say that TOO close of coordination was out of the bounds of fairness... ...but perhaps not.

Beyond this, I am not sure that it is good for FIRST to have 16 Chief Delphi robots out in the wild ;-)

It could be a strange new world we are entering.

Joe J.
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Unread 16-02-2004, 17:23
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Re: I don't know how I feel...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Johnson

Here is the nub of my concern: What would people think of all 16 Delphi teams having the machine that the Chief Delphi Team is making this year (or the Delphi Knights, or the TechnoKats, or whatever)?

CEO's love to have winning teams. We all (including CEO's) know that there is a huge luck factor in winning the Championship. Having 16 chances to win is better than having just one.

I worry that the pressure to win may increase if this type of collaboration becomes more common -- up to this point, we have always been able to say that TOO close of coordination was out of the bounds of fairness... ...but perhaps not.

Beyond this, I am not sure that it is good for FIRST to have 16 Chief Delphi robots out in the wild ;-)

It could be a strange new world we are entering.

Joe J.

1. Do you think you could build 16 identical robots with 16 teams?

2. This collaboration has everything to do with winning. We will have won before the first regional begins by learning how to work together in a long distance partnership by paving the way for teams to think out side the box, sharing information to help everyone.

Winning a Regional or the National Championship is nice but it doesn’t compare to working as a team to develop a new process to build a better product.

How many teams are willing to share all of there current years ideas to include drawings pictures discussion anything? Team 60 and 254 will and do.

3. Do you think it is easier for two teams to build the same robot or each building their own? The answer is it is much harder to build identical robots.

You have to take your ego and put it on the shelf. You have to listen more than you talk. You must be willing to compromise, only if you use the best of everyone’s ideas will the project be a success. In our case we had to deal with shipping and a lag in getting the parts you needed. There are many other obstacles to over come as well.

Will we have a better product in the end? We hope so.

Have our teams learned some valuable real life lessons? Absolutely!
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