You pick, which would you rather have

[viperred396]

Hey CD, We are trying to figure something out

when you are at a regional and are working out strategies with your alliance partners would you rather have


A) A wide robot that has a ~60% chance of scoring then going over to the other side to fee balls by shooting them over to the other side

OR

B) A small robot (~15in X 15in) that all it could do is lower the bridge then balance... hopefully making the triple balance easier?

So which one would you rather have on your alliance during qualifications?
Which one would you rather pick (if either) for eliminations?

Thanks!
Discuss

[Yankeefan181]

Definitely the first one. Almost as important as balancing is preventing the other alliance from balancing...I can't really envision a 15" square robot playing good defense

[AllenGregoryIV]

Do either of them have a mechanical assist device for triple balancing? That would be the best.

A 15 x 15 robot puts the entire alliance at a disadvantage because the other team knows the strategy from the get go. If they can defend the small robot from getting near the bridge they will win the match for sure.

Option A, all the way. In the B scenario, the robot would only be useful for the bridge, which, while useful, isn't enough for one robot.

Though this is a hypothetical situation, in the real competition a wide robot that can score 80% of the time, feed really well, actuate the bridge, and works well when doing a triple balance would be the one to pick. My reason for saying this is when it comes down to it, you'll need a robot that can score in autonomous accurately, and in teleop if needed. Balancing the bridge IS easier for the smaller robot, however as proven multiple times over the weeks, it is possible with 3 wide robots.

[IndySam]

Originally Posted by SuperNerd256

Option A, all the way. In the B scenario, the robot would only be useful for the bridge, which, while useful, isn't enough for one robot.

Though this is a hypothetical situation, in the real competition a wide robot that can score 80% of the time, feed really well, actuate the bridge, and works well when doing a triple balance would be the one to pick. My reason for saying this is when it comes down to it, you'll need a robot that can score in autonomous accurately, and in teleop if needed. Balancing the bridge IS easier for the smaller robot, however as proven multiple times over the weeks, it is possible with 3 wide robots.

LOL you get an A or B question and you pick C, nicely done.

[NickTosta]

Based on what I've seen so far I'd have to go with the first one. A good autonomous and a good teleop are more than enough to offset the 20 points gained by getting the third robot on the bridge.

That could very well change in later regionals and at St. Louis, but for the next couple weeks I don't see that changing.

[Drivencrazy]

Originally Posted by IndySam

LOL you get an A or B question and you pick C, nicely done.

Yes indeed. Although I don't know why he made his C only 80% accurate?

I would go with A because you get added offensive power during hybrid and tele-op and you have a wide robot to still attempt the triple balance if deemed appropriate.

Originally Posted by Drivencrazy

Yes indeed. Although I don't know why he made his C only 80% accurate?

I would go with A because you get added offensive power during hybrid and tele-op and you have a wide robot to still attempt the triple balance if deemed appropriate.

In the perfect world, everything would be 100% accurate, but unfortunately we have Earth, where it's hard to get 100% accurate for things. I say 80% as a minimum. 90%, or even higher, is much more welcome, but 80% accuracy is the lowest I'd be willing to go.

[nssheepster]

I agree, mostly, that A is more logical and useful. But, if B has a powerful drive system, with good maneuverability and traction, they can be an extreme nuisance on defense, and still do the bridge, thus making them useful. At Finger Lakes, I saw a whole lot of type A, but no type B. I think we could have used a type B on our alliance.

[Bob Steele]

i think it is important to remember that to beat a triple balance you need to have a double balance and an additional 20 points at some time.

Teams that don't score in teleop or only do the balance cannot help with scoring during teleop OR do any scoring during hybird

As the season progresses winning alliances are going to have to do all three.

Winning on Einstein in St. Louis will require great auto scores (24+) that score very well in teleop (over 36 points) and do the triple balance. This combination nets 100+ points... Your robot will need to be prepared to participate in all three. Balancing robots that cannot score in auto or teleop will not be at a premium in St. Louis

At regionals they can play a role...certainly...

[wilhitern1]

One small point. If your robot is long and you are in the top 8. There would be a significant potential benefit to picking B, if it were a strong B.

[dodar]

This was somewhat of the quandry that we fell into at Orlando. Before alliance selections, when we were making our list some of us were going back and forth between pairing up with another one of us(strong auto and strong tele-op) or go with a strong auto and strong balancer. We ended up saying that we needed a bit of both. For us, Team 233 the Pink Team fit what we needed perfectly. They scored as good as us in auto, were about 50-60% accurate in tele-op but were unrivaled in balancing. So, I think the thing to look for more than what your first choice should be is what role you would play in that alliance.

[Bill_B]

Many good reasons for picking A, but one for not picking B is that it is easily defended? I don't think you can defend the B as defined.
Playbook of B-'bot:

1. shakes off its two balls in hybrid so others can pick them up
2. Post (or possibly autonomously) hybrid it goes to alliance bridge,
3. pulls back the balls there,
4. balances on it,
5. waits for possible alliance traffic from own side by already tilting that way,
6. scoots in front of alliance 'bot wishing to cross to other side,
7. hovers in the lane (avoids contact with opponents that way or scores big time if they foul him),
8. back on the bridge and tilt to assist returning alliance member,
9. scoot in front of returner,
10. back onto bridge to await triple balance in end-game.

I don't have one of these machines, but if I did, the opponents would never touch me. It would be slightly larger than 15x15 though.

[wilhitern1]

Originally Posted by Bill_B

waits for possible alliance traffic from own side by already tilting that way,

Hope you won't mind if I add a thought here.

Tilts the opposite way when opponents move toward the C-Bridge.

Also, a 15X15 bot can still weigh 120 lbs. They could potentially block and push almost as well as anyone!

[wilhitern1]

Originally Posted by dodar

For us, Team 233 the Pink Team fit what we needed perfectly. They scored as good as us in auto, were about 50-60% accurate in tele-op but were unrivaled in balancing.

I saw a lot of those matches. Really good stuff!