Elitist Teams

[470-RBTX]

A lot of people have been discussing lately the negative remarks that are said about really good teams just because they get blue banners. But I want to explore a different side of the argument.

My team has never been a first super power, and highly doubt we will be soon. We put gracious professionalism at our forefront, instead of looking for ways to win matches, we look for ways to help rookies. So when I recently competed with a team that had an elitist "we're better than you" attitude it left a bad taste in my mouth.

This team is completely unapproachable in their pits, I tried to talk strategy with them, and they denied me even though they had anything better to do.

Then once we got to the cue, they showed up and I tried to to talk to them again, instead of a discussion, they told us what we were going to do the whole match as if it wasn't disputable, as if we didn't have a say. I was mad, but I figured we'll get the win and the qualification points so it's no biggie.

Then once the match starts, the team has a perfect autonomous, and we're against 3 robots that really needed some help mechanically so the score was 36-0 ish in our alliances favor. We drive to our alliance bridge to prep it for balancing like this team told us to, but they apparently wants the balls on that bridge and we're in the way. instead of driving around us or asking us to move, their driver rams into us and shouts at the top of his lungs, "470 get out of the way!" as if them getting those two balls were going to win or lose the match.

That's when I was ready to drop the controls and tell them what I really thought, but Gracious Professionalism prevailed.

Scenarios like this have happened with many other big name teams in our area at competitions before, and I don't want this to smear the pristine FIM image, but does anyone else have these problems?

Is it possible that people make the negative remarks because some teams treat others negatively?

Would this team have acted the same way if Mr. Kamen was in the discussion and behind the driver station with them?

[moogboy]

Unfortunately I have had similar experiences. With this year's game, there is nothing more important than having everyone on the same page and communicating effectively. With those elitist teams, what I noticed being on the field with them was that the heart of the problem was not the students, but the adults around them. From what little I was able to interact with those teams' students, they were very nice and gracious people, but their mentors/coaches were less than stellar.

[rcmolloy]

Originally Posted by 470-RBTX

My team has never been a first super power, and highly doubt we will be soon.

I'm fairly sure that your team can gather up the students, mentors, and resources and make yourself a superpower in a few short years. When it comes down to it, you really need to strive for excellence and always keep making modifications to your robot. That does come from the drive and excellence within the team though so inspiration and motivation will have to be great.

Originally Posted by 470-RBTX

Then once we got to the cue, they showed up and I tried to to talk to them again, instead of a discussion, they told us what we were going to do the whole match as if it wasn't disputable, as if we didn't have a say. I was mad, but I figured we'll get the win and the qualification points so it's no biggie.

I'm not trying to be rude or negative but Elite teams are fairly certain what needs to happen on the field. Nothing against 470, I'm sure that you guys had great plans for pre-match strategy and I feel bad that the team didn't listen to them before coming to a conclusion. However, try and make sure that you do focus in for the benefit of your alliance.

Originally Posted by 470-RBTX

That's when I was ready to drop the controls and tell them what I really thought, but Gracious Professionalism prevailed.

This would have been one of the worst decisions. A great way to piss off a potential alliance captain selecting you would be to drop the controls mid match and give up. Just even the thought is slightly disturbing. I'd personally be making sure that I wouldn't lose the match, and you should be doing the same.

Originally Posted by 470-RBTX

Scenarios like this have happened with many other big name teams in our area at competitions before, and I don't want this to smear the pristine FIM image, but does anyone else have these problems?

This specifically happened to me a number of times while competing in 2010 and 2011. However, I really embraced what they were saying and the team did the best we could to help the alliance win the match. I know it's not the strategy that you planned or wanted but it should still be a $@#$@#$@#$@# good one if it's coming from the team I believe your mentioning.

[470-RBTX]

Originally Posted by rcmolloy

I'm fairly sure that your team can gather up the students, mentors, and resources and make yourself a superpower in a few short years. When it comes down to it, you really need to strive for excellence and always keep making modifications to your robot. That does come from the drive and excellence within the team though so inspiration and motivation will have to be great.

I know that, this team is my heart and soul, I made the remark because of a possible (and in my opinion likely) consolidation between our school and 66's.

Originally Posted by rcmolloy

This would have been one of the worst decisions. A great way to piss off a potential alliance captain selecting you would be to drop the controls mid match and give up. Just even the thought is slightly disturbing. I'd personally be making sure that I wouldn't lose the match, and you should be doing the same.

Where's the GP man? At what point do you realize FIRST is not about winning, it's "For Inspirations and Recognition of Science and Technology." Stop skipping Dean's Saturday morning sermon and understand his intentions! I love the competition aspect, but it's gotta have it's limits.
Love before Money
Gracious Professionalism before Victory!

[rcmolloy]

Originally Posted by 470-RBTX

Where's the GP man? At what point do you realize FIRST is not about winning, it's "For Inspirations and Recognition of Science and Technology." Stop skipping Dean's Saturday morning sermon and understand his intentions! I love the competition aspect, but it's gotta have it's limits.
Love before Money
Gracious Professionalism before Victory!

I do have a lot of gracious professionalism, that's something I'm not really worried about losing. One thing, however, is that I am highly, highly competitive when it comes to FIRST. There are no limits to competition unless they are negative towards other teams. Elites love to win and they fuel the inspiration for other teams and students to become better teams on the robot side of the spectrum. So even though you had a bad run in with this team, give them a second chance. I'm sure they would love to play with you guys again.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by rcmolloy

I do have a lot of gracious professionalism, that's something I'm not really worried about losing. One thing, however, is that I am highly, highly competitive when it comes to FIRST. There are no limits to competition unless they are negative towards other teams. Elites love to win and they fuel the inspiration for other teams and students to become better teams on the robot side of the spectrum. So even though you had a bad run in with this team, give them a second chance. I'm sure they would love to play with you guys again.

In other words, the team should turn the other cheek or, in this case, let their robot get rammed from the other side?

Jane

[hounvs]

Originally Posted by rcmolloy

So even though you had a bad run in with this team, give them a second chance. I'm sure they would love to play with you guys again.

I'm a rookie on 470 but I've been on another team before. I've experience this with the same team and have seen them do it to other teams as well. They don't deserve a second chance, they deserve to be banned from FIRST or otherwise chastised for their blatant disregard of gracious professionalism.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by hounvs

I'm a rookie on 470 but I've been on another team before. I've experience this with the same team and have seen them do it to other teams as well. They don't deserve a second chance, they deserve to be banned from FIRST or otherwise chastised for their blatant disregard of gracious professionalism.

You think a Championship Chairman's winning team should be banned from FIRST?

I suggest you re-evaluate your position, as it is thoroughly untenable.

[P.J.]

Originally Posted by hounvs

I'm a rookie on 470 but I've been on another team before. I've experience this with the same team and have seen them do it to other teams as well. They don't deserve a second chance, they deserve to be banned from FIRST or otherwise chastised for their blatant disregard of gracious professionalism.

And you suggesting they be banned fits your definition of Gracious Professionalism? Did you not read any of this thread? Adam has apologized and explained his position in every way possible barring another language, and you still feel the need to talk trash about them?

[Mullen]

While the OP was pointing out a single instance involving the HOT team, we can not and should not single them out. I've been around FIRST for a while now and these types of actions are not limited to the so called "Elitist" teams. Every team is out to win, every team wants to show off what they built, and every team has their moments of weakness. I've had a past life as a drive coach, so I'm well aware of what goes on during strategy development, on field actions, and the potential fallout of when things don't go as you want. Some times you see a matchup and want the alliance to know this is what has to be done to win, some times the matchup allows for a variety of options. Every match is different and everybody's willingness to go along with the set strategy may not always be equal. Having a solid strategy may sometimes come off as "we are telling you what to do," but in reality, they are just looking out for what's best for the alliance.

For those that have claimed that HOT is solely about winning and doesn't care about anything or anyone else, hopefully you will someday change your mind. I've heard this claim before, and I've been quick to try and diffuse that notion. Over the years I have worked with and built relationships many HOT team alumni. I've never met a group of people more passionate about FIRST and all that it stands for. Whether helping get new teams off the ground or joining a struggling veteran, people that have gone through the system that HOT has developed have proven to be extremely knowledgeable and helpful in all situations.

My team has unfortunately been elimated by HOT twice this year, first in the finals at Waterford, and most recently in the quarterfinals at Northville. There aren't any hard feelings, infact laughs and congratulatory words were shared by both in each instance. If nothing else, these experiences serve as an inspiration to keep improving.

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by hounvs

I'm a rookie on 470 but I've been on another team before. I've experience this with the same team and have seen them do it to other teams as well. They don't deserve a second chance, they deserve to be banned from FIRST or otherwise chastised for their blatant disregard of gracious professionalism.

I didn't post anything in this thread because I've never had issues with elite teams, but dude you are out of line.

Adam's apology and responses in this thread have been amazing yet you turn around and spit this right back. Think before you post up again and actually read what he has to say. Don't just be mad and call it a day.

To the OP- thanks for this discussion
Adam- thanks for your extremely well thought out and worded responses, they were actually inspirational.

[Mike Rush]

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

Adam- thanks for your extremely well thought out and worded responses, they were actually inspirational.

I agree. Even though my earlier comments were critical but (hopefully) constructive, Adam took them and stated that his intention was to continuously improve... an admirable goal all around!

[Katie_UPS]

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

I didn't post anything in this thread because I've never had issues with elite teams, but dude you are out of line.

Adam's apology and responses in this thread have been amazing yet you turn around and spit this right back. Think before you post up again and actually read what he has to say. Don't just be mad and call it a day.

To the OP- thanks for this discussion
Adam- thanks for your extremely well thought out and worded responses, they were actually inspirational.

Originally Posted by P.J.

And you suggesting they be banned fits your definition of Gracious Professionalism? Did you not read any of this thread? Adam has apologized and explained his position in every way possible barring another language, and you still feel the need to talk trash about them?

Originally Posted by Cory

You think a Championship Chairman's winning team should be banned from FIRST?

I suggest you re-evaluate your position, as it is thoroughly untenable.

So, a little off-topic, but something I want to address anyways:

The kid said they were a rookie. Cut them some slack. Instead of publicly shaming them, send them a message that isn't so harsh and explain to them why you think their post was uncalled for.

I'd hate to see someone be shunned and turned off to CD because they stuck their foot in their mouth (because then I'd be half the person I am now... the only reason I kept coming back is cause I'm stubborn).

EDIT: It has been brought to my attention that they have been on another team. Although they should know better, there are better ways to show them the error in their ways. I've said some dumb things before on this forum, some that I have been severely scolded for and other that have been handled in a less harsh manner. I know which ones I had grown more from, with clear understanding where I went wrong and why I should think differently.


****

HOT/Adam, very graceful replies. I hope that I one day can take criticism as gracefully as you.

[sdcantrell56]

Originally Posted by Katie_UPS

So, a little off-topic, but something I want to address anyways:

The kid said they were a rookie. Cut them some slack. Instead of publicly shaming them, send them a message that isn't so harsh and explain to them why you think their post was uncalled for.

I'd hate to see someone be shunned and turned off to CD because they stuck their foot in their mouth (because then I'd be half the person I am now... the only reason I kept coming back is cause I'm stubborn).


****

HOT/Adam, very graceful replies. I hope that I one day can take criticism as gracefully as you.

In all fairness he said he was a rookie on 470 but had been on another team before so rightfully should know better.

[Katie_UPS]

Ayup, missed that part.

None the less, five people shaming someone doesn't solve the problem.

Back to the previous discussion...