Team applications: Yes, or no?

I've been in the works of organizing our team for next year, and a subject I've come across is team applications. Mainly applications at the beginning of the year for potential students to fill out, so they can get reviewed and either accepted or denied.

While I think this would be useful of solving the team's problem of finding and keeping people serious about robotics, I also feel that this would go against FIRST, since we're not really inspiring others if we turn them down (Turn downs would only be for explicit reasons, most likely to keep seriousness and productivity on the team, and unproductiveness out).

Should I go with making my team the most efficient it can be, bettering the experience for those on it, or should I try to involve everyone, so they may get the chance to become inspired?

What are your thoughts on team applications, and why?

[EricH]

When you do an application, you don't have to reject anybody.

If you're smart about it, you can use the application to get contact info, emergency contact info, and what part of the team a person wants to be on (mechanical, electrical, programming, non-technical, CAD, that sort of thing). That makes sorting them into subteams easier, and it makes it a whole lot easier to contact them if you need to. (And I hope you never have to use the emergency contact information, but if you need it it's there.)

You can ask someone to leave the team later, if you need to; usually, that would only be if they're being counter-productive or if there are "other issues" that need to be resolved.

Thanks! We may do that, depending on who wants to join next year.

[DampRobot]

Originally Posted by EricH

When you do an application, you don't have to reject anybody.

If you're smart about it, you can use the application to get contact info, emergency contact info, and what part of the team a person wants to be on (mechanical, electrical, programming, non-technical, CAD, that sort of thing). That makes sorting them into subteams easier, and it makes it a whole lot easier to contact them if you need to. (And I hope you never have to use the emergency contact information, but if you need it it's there.)

This. In my mind, an "application" implies the possibility of rejection, while this seems more like paperwork associated with joining the team. If this is what SuperNerd meant by "application," I would encourage him to peruse it. Informational paperwork seems like a good idea in almost any organisation.

Originally Posted by DampRobot

This. In my mind, an "application" implies the possibility of rejection, while this seems more like paperwork associated with joining the team. If this is what SuperNerd meant by "application," I would encourage him to peruse it. Informational paperwork seems like a good idea in almost any organisation.

I'll look into this, since it does seem like a good option.

Our team's problem isn't commitment, since, surprisingly, we have a good amount of committed students. It's productivity. We have students who come all the time, but don't do anything, and often disrupt the productive ones. Basically, the point of the application is to see if the students who want to join will be serious about the work given to them. Commitment, while important, has never seemed to be much of a problem on the team.

Thanks for the help, DampRobot and Eric!

[loyal]

First don't call it an application call it an information sheet. That way it wont imply a refusal of acceptance. Always let them join. Next all new members should show there worth by accomplishing some of the not so glamorous tasks like fund raising , cleaning, paper work, painting. You know what I'm talking about. This will cut the dead wood so fast you wont believe it. Unless the new member has come with a legitimate letter of recommendation from a teacher or mentor or is known to have outstanding skills that cant be denied, all should start at the bottom. The cream will rise to the top fast. Redirect the potential achievers to positions that use there best qualities effectively and efficiently. If you have a member that is not very productive and can talk a good game about why they are not productive then guess what? You just have got your self a good public relations person or sales person. Every team needs a smooth talker. The point is look for the best qualities one has to offer and put it to good use. That's the making of a good leader. Also take into consideration a members personal issues. Things might not be going so well for an individual at times. You will always have over achievers and under achievers. Its a fact of life. As long as every member has at lest one hand in at pulling the cart you will get your robot to the big show.

So applications= no. Information sheet= yes.

20 year small business owner.

Originally Posted by loyal

First don't call it an application call it an information sheet. That way it wont imply a refusal of acceptance. Always let them join. Next all new members should show there worth by accomplishing some of the not so glamorous tasks like fund raising , cleaning, paper work, painting. You know what I'm talking about. This will cut the dead wood so fast you wont believe it. Unless the new member has come with a legitimate letter of recommendation from a teacher or mentor or is known to have outstanding skills that cant be denied, all should start at the bottom. The cream will rise to the top fast. Redirect the potential achievers to positions that use there best qualities effectively and efficiently. If you have a member that is not very productive and can talk a good game about why they are not productive then guess what? You just have got your self a good public relations person or sales person. Every team needs a smooth talker. The point is look for the best qualities one has to offer and put it to good use. That's the making of a good leader. Also take into consideration a members personal issues. Things might not be going so well for an individual at times. You will always have over achievers and under achievers. Its a fact of life. As long as every member has at lest one hand in at pulling the cart you will get your robot to the big show.

So applications= no. Information sheet= yes.

20 year small business owner.

Thanks so much! I appreciate everyone's advice, from this thread or PM! One of the many reasons I love FIRST and CD is because of all of the knowledge people are willing to teach you. I've benefited immensely from everyone here. Thanks!

[Alexa Stott]

Originally Posted by EricH

When you do an application, you don't have to reject anybody.

If you're smart about it, you can use the application to get contact info, emergency contact info, and what part of the team a person wants to be on (mechanical, electrical, programming, non-technical, CAD, that sort of thing). That makes sorting them into subteams easier, and it makes it a whole lot easier to contact them if you need to. (And I hope you never have to use the emergency contact information, but if you need it it's there.)

You can ask someone to leave the team later, if you need to; usually, that would only be if they're being counter-productive or if there are "other issues" that need to be resolved.

This sums up what I was going to say. We don't do it anymore, but I had to fill out an information sheet-type thing when I joined my freshman year.

That being said, we do have other requirements for being on the team, such as minimum GPA (everyone must maintain at least a C average in all classes), volunteering at Brunswick Eruption (unless you have a really good excuse), and completing 10 hours of community service before the beginning of the build season each year.

[loyal]

The community service requirement is brilliant! I am going to talk to my son/ team vice president to see if that can be added to our requirements. My son and I volunteer every Saturday that we can for Habitat for Humanity. A community service requirement would prove a commitment to the team and a prove the individual is motivated.

[DonRotolo]

Of course we collect necessary info from each student, and advise them of certain requirements, but there are no rejections. Unless there's no form submitted

What we do is set forth a service requirement (ours is 10 hours): Show up at the team carwash in September, show up at our fundraising events, show up at shop cleanup, etc. No exceptions to the 10 hour rule, failure here is that you're not welcome on the team. For those laggards who are eternally late, we do offer some make-up sessions doing the 'dirtiest' work, like carrying supplies, wiping down machinery and tools, taking out trash...

Then we have performance reviews - one at the end of week 2 and one at the end of week 5. Students are rated on productivity, seriousness of purpose, and effort (to name a few). The week 2 is to put the slackers on notice, and the one in week 5 determines if they travel with the team or not. The standards can be as low or high as your team leadership likes, but there MUST be a rubric (score sheet) so all students know exactly what is expected of them.

Just like a real job.

(This system contributed to our winning 3 Entrepreneurship awards so far this year)

[Cal578]

Originally Posted by DonRotolo

Then we have performance reviews - one at the end of week 2 and one at the end of week 5. Students are rated on productivity, seriousness of purpose, and effort (to name a few). The week 2 is to put the slackers on notice, and the one in week 5 determines if they travel with the team or not. The standards can be as low or high as your team leadership likes, but there MUST be a rubric (score sheet) so all students know exactly what is expected of them.

The different purposes of the week 2 and week 5 reviews is a great idea. I would like to learn more about the standards you set, how you measure performance against the standards, who implements it, how you enforce it. Also, how do students react when they don't meet the standards at week 5, and how do their parents react?

If this is too much detail to post here, feel free to email me.

I'm asking all these questions because I think our team could improve in this area. The other posts in this thread have also been helpful. Thanks, everyone!

[Carolyn_Grace]

As a student on the Killer Bees I had to fill out an application, collect two recommendations (one from a teacher at our school) and be interviewed by two mentors on the team. It was a great experience. I learned more about the program before I became involved, the mentors were able to get an idea of my personality and what I might be interested in doing on the team, and I was able to ask questions before making a final commitment.

It was also the first application and interview process that I went though, which turned out to be a very useful experience for later in life (well, later that year actually...) when I applied for jobs.

On the mentor side of things, interviews have always been one of my favorite aspects of this program. The applications and interviews are an awesome way to get to know potential students, but we even interview our returning students, and that is sometimes the most rewarding. We ask them questions like the following:

• What was your favorite part of the build season (and/or competition season)?
• What was your favorite event and why?
• What was your least favorite event and why?
• What did you accomplish this year?
• What do you want to accomplish next year?
• What can we do better as a team?
• What can the mentors do better to improve the team?
• How can you take a leadership role next year?
• etc....

It's a great way to get feedback and assess what we need to do differently (or the same!) for the next year.

My impression is that 33 students generally enjoy the interviews and see the benefits of filling out an application. At least I haven't heard any complaints about it so far.

(side note: the two mentors that interviewed me as a student are now two of my favorite people in FIRST. I still remember that interview: me dressed in my softball uniform and meeting these two people who ended up making such a huge impact on my life...pretty awesome. )

Thanks all for posting your thoughts. While there seems to be no unanimous answer, it looks like an information sheet of some kind is very useful. I look forward to the new responses. Thanks!

[Caleb Sykes]

My team only has 15 members or so, and I would love to have an application process, but right now we cannot really afford to lose any potentially helpful members of the team. Over the summer and into the fall, we are going into an aggressive recruitment phase to expand our team size. My question is, should we enact an application/interview for this upcoming year even with this uncertainty about size?

[nlknauss]

Originally Posted by inkling25

My team only has 15 members or so, and I would love to have an application process, but right now we cannot really afford to lose any potentially helpful members of the team. Over the summer and into the fall, we are going into an aggressive recruitment phase to expand our team size. My question is, should we enact an application/interview for this upcoming year even with this uncertainty about size?

Remember that an application doesn't have to be used to filter out potential members. You can use the application to learn so much about the interested students and what they hope to accomplish as a member of your team. I think that Carolyn's post above on Team 33's application does a great job of outlining a possible application you can use.