[FTC]: Opinion on lifting robots

[DanielH]

I was wondering what everyone else thought on the feasibility of lifting robots.

I think lifting by a few inches would be feasible for any robot. However if they want to lift a robot the full 24 inches (which is something like 120 points), then a dedicated lifter robot who is built for the sole purpose of lifting another robot up 24 inches (and maybe playing some defense) would be the only way I see this as plausible.

So a dedicated lifter bot paired with an awesome scoring robot leads to a pretty high score, if I say so myself. It may be a good idea to make one....

[ksafin]

Never had to do anything about a robot lifting another, but like SuperNerd said, it should be fairly possible for all robots.

Of course, you still have to build your robot with this in mind. Our team had a preliminary idea of having our electronics and battery and NXT mounted on a plate that we could move horizontally from front to back of the robot to slightly shift the center of mass to adjust for robots being heavier or lighter.

Honestly though, there's been posts about people analyzing highest theoretical scores, and one said it was 1,720. In that score, 720 was from the weighted rings on the corner goal.

I think the weighted rings are BIG in this game. If you get 5 on, your score is doubled.

[ehochstein]

Originally Posted by ksafin

Never had to do anything about a robot lifting another, but like SuperNerd said, it should be fairly possible for all robots.

Of course, you still have to build your robot with this in mind. Our team had a preliminary idea of having our electronics and battery and NXT mounted on a plate that we could move horizontally from front to back of the robot to slightly shift the center of mass to adjust for robots being heavier or lighter.

Honestly though, there's been posts about people analyzing highest theoretical scores, and one said it was 1,720. In that score, 720 was from the weighted rings on the corner goal.

I think the weighted rings are BIG in this game. If you get 5 on, your score is doubled.

You need to have a score to be doubled... In which case you need a robot that can not only sort rings, and score them on the corner post but also a robot that can score on the center posts.

In the perfect alliance I see on robot which can lift other robots and sort rings... While the other robot concentrates on the center posts. In the end game one robots lifts the other, it really all depends on how efficiently you can score rings.

[ksafin]

Originally Posted by Wiifi

You need to have a score to be doubled... In which case you need a robot that can not only sort rings, and score them on the corner post but also a robot that can score on the center posts.

In the perfect alliance I see on robot which can lift other robots and sort rings... While the other robot concentrates on the center posts. In the end game one robots lifts the other, it really all depends on how efficiently you can score rings.

I know you need a score to be doubled.

I really don't see any reason for not having a robot that can't differentiate between the two rings. If you grab it with a small claw that's about the size of a diameter, have a "subclaw" of that claw. Hard to explain in text, but here:



You just have a subclaw within a claw. You grab the rings with the top part of the claw, but the sub claw has a tolerance of 2 oz (this can be made more) and if the rings is heavier it will drop. Easy indicator of the weight and it takes little to no space in an existing claw.

[ehochstein]

Originally Posted by ksafin

I know you need a score to be doubled.

I really don't see any reason for not having a robot that can't differentiate between the two rings. If you grab it with a small claw that's about the size of a diameter, have a "subclaw" of that claw. Hard to explain in text, but here:

You just have a subclaw within a claw. You grab the rings with the top part of the claw, but the sub claw has a tolerance of 2 oz (this can be made more) and if the rings is heavier it will drop. Easy indicator of the weight and it takes little to no space in an existing claw.

I like the idea! (Although I hope that 2 pound spec is a mistake... I don't think the rings weigh two pounds

I was thinking something very similar to that, in a two minute period are you going to be able to go through every single ring though?? There are 26 per alliance. You would pretty much have to pick a ring up, and set it down if it wasn't weighted. You wouldn't have time to score it.

[ksafin]

Originally Posted by Wiifi

I like the idea! (Although I hope that 2 pound spec is a mistake... I don't think the rings weigh two pounds

I was thinking something very similar to that, in a two minute period are you going to be able to go through every single ring though?? There are 26 per alliance. You would pretty much have to pick a ring up, and set it down if it wasn't weighted. You wouldn't have time to score it.

Yeah, that's true.

I'm just throwing around ideas for now but I like this as a way to sort rings because it's quick and embedded in the actual claw.

To be honest, I was really looking toward having a claw capable of picking up multiple rings. Like either 2 or 3. In this case, you obviously have to adjust the tolerance to say, 6 oz.

But at this point its a matter of being able to take one off at a time.

Lots of things to think about, but it's a very viable idea. Physics behind it is simple enough too.

[LeelandS]

Lifting robots doesn't seem that hard to me. Well, depending on how high you want to go.

You could go the FRC2007 route, where many teams built a ramp system that leads to a flat top. As long as the angle of the ramp isn't too steep, many robots shouldn't have a problem. With that, I can't imagine it would be hard to get your partner up at least 1" for the bonus. Maybe even a few inches more. I wonder how feasible it would be to create a series of inclines to achieve further height...

That said, if you want to go higher, matters get a little tricky. You could use the ramp system mentioned above, and build in some kind of elevation system (like a scissor lift). Though that could quickly become heavy and complicated if you want the stability to hoist a robot 24" in the air.

The matter certainly requires some thought. From my side of things, the FRC2007 ramp system seems like a simple and effective way of getting the robot. It can also leave room for a team to develop a method of scoring rings. The lifting of robots sounds like a fun end game, and is certainly possible.

Here's to hoping we don't see any 24" topples...

[kiasam111]

Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvmyemana30

A combination of that and the crazy lifting mechanisms that we saw in Bowled Over could be a fantastic combination!

[ksafin]

Ooh, does stacking count as lifting?

[Camren]

Optimized lifting means having a robot get up on top of your robot. That is 18 inches without any lifting and then make up the last 6 inches with air cylinders or maybe some other sort of "Stinger"

[LeelandS]

Originally Posted by ksafin

Ooh, does stacking count as lifting?

From Game Manual 1.3.4 End Game

"In order to earn the Lifting Bonus, the lifted Robot must be fully supported by the Alliance partner’s Robot and not by any other game object (i.e. 100% of the weight of a robot must be supported by the Alliance partner’s Robot)."

Therefore, it seems to me that, as long as one robot is COMPLETELY supported by another, it counts as being lifted for the bonus.

Originally Posted by Camren

Optimized lifting means having a robot get up on top of your robot. That is 18 inches without any lifting and then make up the last 6 inches with air cylinders or maybe some other sort of "Stinger"

The challenge then is, how do you get a robot up 18"? A ramp of some sort for that purpose would be quite steep.

[ksafin]

Originally Posted by LeelandS

From Game Manual 1.3.4 End Game

"In order to earn the Lifting Bonus, the lifted Robot must be fully supported by the Alliance partner’s Robot and not by any other game object (i.e. 100% of the weight of a robot must be supported by the Alliance partner’s Robot)."

Therefore, it seems to me that, as long as one robot is COMPLETELY supported by another, it counts as being lifted for the bonus.



The challenge then is, how do you get a robot up 18"? A ramp of some sort for that purpose would be quite steep.

Not if you make it long.

Technically if you had some sort of sheet of metal at the top of your robot that folds out into a ramp, and you're serious about being a ramp bot, you should have some kind of way to expand the ramp to be longer to not make it a steep adventure.

[LeelandS]

That's plausible. If that's the plan, instead of one sheet that flips down to make a ramp, you could have two sheets that flip down to make one continuous ramp. As long as they can be locked in place to prevent them collapsing, that's definitely possible.

That would be quite a sight. A "Super ramp" that flips down so an alliance partner can climb on top. That would be one monster of a climb.

[ksafin]

Originally Posted by LeelandS

That's plausible. If that's the plan, instead of one sheet that flips down to make a ramp, you could have two sheets that flip down to make one continuous ramp. As long as they can be locked in place to prevent them collapsing, that's definitely possible.

That would be quite a sight. A "Super ramp" that flips down so an alliance partner can climb on top. That would be one monster of a climb.

Yup, pretty much.

Another design that came across my mind was kind of like a forklift type design where you have a forklift that can get from the floor to the very top of the robot. Attached to the carriage of the forklift is simply an 18x18 sheet of strong metal. It's in vertical position when game starts, but then at end game, this 18x18 metal is expanded; its basically now flat with the floor.

A robot can then get on the metal sheet, and the forklift of the lifting bot can raise the robot & the metal sheet to the top of the bot, and then viola.