Is the Chairman's Award fixed? I believe so.....

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Posted by Vinny Bushemi.

Other from none.

Posted on 8/2/2000 2:47 PM MST



Over the past 6 years when I've been done in Florida, right when they announce the culmination of FIRST: the Chairman's Award, I get a burning desire in my soul for someone deserving to win the Chairman's Award.

However, for 5 of the past 6 years, I've been let down. Only once, Boston Edison/Plymouth North, did the Chairman's Award go to a team that didn't have the financial support of a small country.

I know as well as everyone else that in order for FIRST to succeed, finacial backing is needed. BUT just because you put up the money, doesn't mean that you should be guaranteed an award each year regardless of robot performance.

Once again, just an observation..

Later
Vinny

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Posted by Becky Allen.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Student on team #16, Baxter Bomb Squad, from Mountain Home High School and Baxter Healthcare.

Posted on 8/2/2000 3:09 PM MST


In Reply to: Is the Chairman's Award fixed? I believe so..... posted by Vinny Bushemi on 8/2/2000 2:47 PM MST:



Did you do your research on this subject? Because as a 1999 and 2000 member of the Baxter Bomb Squad, I remember countless hours standing in the cold in front of local grocery and Wal-mart stores selling tickets in order for my team to be able to attend competitions and be a part of FIRST.
Baxter gives us support from engineers and some money, however, we, the students,raised thousands of dollars.
Besides money should play no factor in determining the Chairman's Award winner.
Chairman's Award is about the exhibition of the partnership between the school, the corporation and the community.
And I feel that my team showed that partnership as well as any other team. I'm sure past winning teams feel the same way about their team.
I'm assuming the judges were accknowledging the partnership that our team exhibited, and that is why we have been a Chairman's Award finalist for five years.
But I guess you have a right to your opinion. However, you might want to look at what each winner has done to deserve to win. The results might surprise you.
If you have any questions about any teams Chairman's Award submission, just ask. I'm sure they will be proud to tell you about the time and effort they put into to such a honorable task.
-Becky Allen


: Over the past 6 years when I've been done in Florida, right when they announce the culmination of FIRST: the Chairman's Award, I get a burning desire in my soul for someone deserving to win the Chairman's Award.

: However, for 5 of the past 6 years, I've been let down. Only once, Boston Edison/Plymouth North, did the Chairman's Award go to a team that didn't have the financial support of a small country.

: I know as well as everyone else that in order for FIRST to succeed, finacial backing is needed. BUT just because you put up the money, doesn't mean that you should be guaranteed an award each year regardless of robot performance.

: Once again, just an observation..

: Later
: Vinny

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Posted by Michael Martus.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Coach on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central H.S. and Delphi Automotives Systems.

Posted on 8/2/2000 3:31 PM MST


In Reply to: Re: Is the Chairman's Award fixed? I believe so..... posted by Becky Allen on 8/2/2000 3:09 PM MST:




Well said Becky.

Chief Delphi knows what a deserving winner your team was. You must be proud being from such a great team!

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Posted by Vanessa Bessner.

Student on team #16, Baxter Bomb Squad, from Mountain Home High School and Baxter Healthcare Corporation.

Posted on 8/2/2000 3:28 PM MST


In Reply to: Is the Chairman's Award fixed? I believe so..... posted by Vinny Bushemi on 8/2/2000 2:47 PM MST:



Vinny~

I am a student from the Baxter Bomb Squad, the 2000 winner of the Chairman's Award. I just wanted to comment on your observation. Although my team is sponsored by Baxter Healthcare Corporation, we definitely do not have the FINANCIAL backing of a small army. After the 1998 season, Baxter had to cut funds and for the past two years the students of the Bomb Squad have raised our own money. We have and continue to work really hard at fundraising and trying to get our community involved with our team. We have done this through numerous presentations to various civic clubs, working booths at our county fair, holding a regional of our own, etc. . . Altough, Baxter does not fully fund our team, they are always there for us. The engineers from my team are the greatest and have become some of my closest friends, always trying to inspire us students in the true meaning of FIRST. So, even though it may not be financially, my team does have the support of a small army . . . an army of great engineers and a loving community to go along with it.

Sincerely,

Vanessa Bessner
Baxter Bomb Squad, #16

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Posted by Michael Martus.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Coach on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central H.S. and Delphi Automotives Systems.

Posted on 8/2/2000 3:28 PM MST


In Reply to: Is the Chairman's Award fixed? I believe so..... posted by Vinny Bushemi on 8/2/2000 2:47 PM MST:




Chief Delphi is very offended by these comments as I am sure are the other winners and finalists.

We have won the Chairman's Award in 1997 and were a Finalist this past year, 2000.

We have a year around FIRST Program and have been responsible for many of the FIRST Programs you enjoy today.

Example:

Where do you think the Lego League idea came from ... Our CADET program was the pioneer and model that demonstrated the importance of involving youth at a younger age..

Also what about the Chief Delphi Invitational that has exposed many schools to FIRST who are now FIRST Teams. Michigan is one of the fastest growing regions. Look at the quanity of teams.

We mentor many FIRST Teams ( Rookie Camp ) each year and take a proactive role in the development of FIRST and the KIT OF PARTS.... where do you think the rotating light idea came from last year?

And what about this web site, an innovator from the start pushing teams to be stronger and fostering communication.

Add to that our Summer Intern Program, 9th Grade Challenge, Scholarship Program and full year mentorship of our students by Delphi and you only have the tip of the iceberg! We have many other unique programs and activities.

Now here is the real problem! When they announce a Chairmans winner they only give a few words about all the great things they are doing. Our team has been in FIRST for 5 years and I can say in our opinion each Chairmans winner was very deserved of the honor.

Yes, there are many great teams that deserve this honor, yours included. However, with the limitation of 1 winner, many great teams do not get recognized for their great efforts.

Take a few moments and contact the winners and finalists. Ask them for a copy of their chairmans award to review. I am sure that they will share. See what they are doing. I think you will gain a new respect for the award winners.

I am sorry you are so frustrated with the system. If you have suggestions for change, the FIRST Team Forum is coming up soon. Present your solutitions there, it is your time to be heard.

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Posted by "MOE".   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Coach on team #88, TJ2, from Bridgewater-Raynham Reg. High School and Johnson & Johnson .

Posted on 8/3/2000 6:43 AM MST


In Reply to: Re: Is the Chairman's Award fixed? I believe so, OFFENDED posted by Michael Martus on 8/2/2000 3:28 PM MST:



:
Hi to all
We at team 88 have worked very hard at what we do some
know us and some do not. But all teams in this FRIST program
bring different things. I thinkThe Chairmans Award is NOT fixed!!!!!!!
Well said Mike To ALL... FIRST IS FIRST... and lets keep it that way
See you all soon......

TEAM 88 TJ2 MOE

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Posted by Hector.

Other on team none from none.

Posted on 8/3/2000 8:50 AM MST


In Reply to: Re: Is the Chairman's Award fixed? I believe so, OFFENDED posted by Michael Martus on 8/2/2000 3:28 PM MST:



First of all I want to comment on the chairman's award, which I also think could be somewhat dominated. I believe that the teams with the big bucks have more resources and time to be able to do the extra things to brown nose first. The smaller teams that are working just as hard and just as many hours to do the great things for this program are being shafted. Maybe a way the chairman's award should be done is to have a chairman's award for the big boys and then another one for those of us less equipped with the resources it takes to be a chairman’s finalist. As far as being able to come up with ideas for such things as lights like you guys did (By the way those things could have been designed to be much more convenient) how come its only the people with lots of money and time that get to come up with things of that importance? I do have to say that things need to be analyzed and something should be done for next year!

THANKS
NANCEY

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Posted by Greg Mills.

Engineer on team #16, Baxter Bomb Squad, from Mountain Home and Baxter Healthcare.

Posted on 8/3/2000 9:34 AM MST


In Reply to: Is the Chairman's Award fixed? I believe so, YES posted by Hector on 8/3/2000 8:50 AM MST:



:
I think what we all take exception to is the word 'Fixed' The implications of that statement sre offensive. Do teams with resources have any advantage? Without a doubt! But should they be ashamed because of good fourtune? I think most would agree with a statement that 'Teams with money have a better chance of winning'. But not just because they have money but because they chose to use that money! Much has been made in the past about the support of GM & Delphi - should those students be penalized because they have the good fortune to be associated with far-sighted sponsors? Look at what has come from that (quickly off the top of my head) - teams such as #45, 47, 64, 65, 67, 68 etc.. I'm not talking about robots, I'm talking about teams. I remember those guys because of the teams. Money and resources do not by themselves build programs such as these. Don't diminish the work of these guys because they have more money. I am proud to have made friends on each of these teams (along with many others) and am proud for their accomplishments. I'm also sure that I would be proud of what others are doing if I had the chance to see it.

I have seen our team as one with an almost unlimited budget and I have seen our team not knowing if we had enough money to make it - guess what - we were the same folks with the same ideals.

Greg

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Posted by Mike Faticanti.

Coach on team #157, AZTECHS, from Assabet Valley R.T.H.S. and Simplex/EMC/Intel-Ma/Neles Controls/Jamesbury Inc.

Posted on 8/3/2000 5:05 PM MST


In Reply to: Re: Is the Chairman's Award fixed? I believe so, OFFENDED posted by Michael Martus on 8/2/2000 3:28 PM MST:



WOW Mike
and a full time job and family too!!!!!! lol
J/K
Keep up the great work.

After reading all that I know our team made the right decision in not submitting for the Chairman’s Award. Time and resources well spent somewhere else.

PS
I wouldn’t have admitted the rotating light was my idea!!!!!!!!!!

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Posted by Joe Johnson.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

Posted on 8/3/2000 9:11 PM MST


In Reply to: Re: Is the Chairman's Award fixed? I believe so, OFFENDED posted by Mike Faticanti on 8/3/2000 5:05 PM MST:



Open Letter to All:

I stick by the lights.

Co-opertition FIRST would have been a totally unviewable mess without those lights.

I am serious. Can you imagine trying to figure out whether a robot is scoring to win or scoring to even the score in order to gain Q-points without those lights? It was bad enough as it was. Without the lights, only fanatical fans with photographic memories could have made any sense of the game at all.

While I don't think the lights had anything to do with being a finalist for the Chairman's Award, I DO take credit (or blame) for them with pride.

Joe J.

P.S. Speaking of the Chairman's Award & kit related things, I note a tone in a lot of folk's messages of 'Big Budget' teams getting all the breaks.

I don't deny that strong, reliable funding brings many advantages, but I would hope that those same folks will give us a break once in for working to help the whole FIRST community with only marginal benefit to our own team. If I start to list the ways, it is likely this will only lead to more snide remarks like those I have already read too often. BUT…

…The issue of improving the FIRST kit is too dear to my heart to let pass without some words. With the exception of the paid staff of FIRST and perhaps Tony, Dave & Bob from Innovation First, I dare say nobody has had a larger impact on the FIRST kit of materials than I have.

It pains me to have this work disparaged and dismissed as the result of some endless bucket of money that I am supposed to have access to in order to buy the hearts & minds of FIRST judges. Well… …it just isn't so.

At the risk of blowing my own horn too loudly, let me list the items and ideas that I have played a major role in getting into the FIRST kit:
Tape Drive Window Lift Motor & Mechanism
The larger capacity lead-acid batteries
Fore/Aft Seat Adjuster
Power Sliding Door Motors
Globe Motors
Fisher-Price Transmissions & Motors
Keyang Seat Adjuster Motors
Power Distribution Blocks
Gyro Chip
Operator Interface powered via robot battery power via the tether
Rotating Lights

Seriously, can anyone really imaging building a robot to play the games we've had these past few years without these kit components in the kit? Yet, even so, I doubt that any of the judges had anything but the vaguest idea of any of these efforts.

So… Next time you are smearing 'big budget' teams for buying their way to awards, I hope that you will at least concede at least some folks on some of these teams are directing some of their efforts to advancing FIRST with something less than selfish motives.

P.P.S. I encourage others to join the effort of improving the FIRST kit. If your sponsor makes cool stuff that would be great on a FIRST robot, ASK THEM TO DONATE! If you see stuff in trade magazines that every fashionable robot simply can't live without, CALL THE MANUFACTURER. All they can say is no. AND... ...all it takes is time & a stamp.

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Posted by Greg Mills.

Engineer on team #16, Baxter Bomb Squad, from Mountain Home and Baxter Healthcare.

Posted on 8/4/2000 6:21 AM MST


In Reply to: Taking credit for the lights & other things... posted by Joe Johnson on 8/3/2000 9:11 PM MST:



:
Many of us have been aware of the contributions of Delphi and the hard work you have put into FIRST. I'm glad this subject came up so more can be enlightened.

I liked the lights - I just wish there had been a weight concession.

Greg

PS - I tryed to get catheters donated once.........it just didn't work out

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Posted by Mike McIntyre.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Coach on team #1, Juggernaut, from Oakland Technical Center Northeast and 3 Dimensional Services.

Posted on 8/5/2000 10:52 PM MST


In Reply to: Taking credit for the lights & other things... posted by Joe Johnson on 8/3/2000 9:11 PM MST:



As a former member of that 'big bucks' team, Chief Delphi, there's one more point that needs to be made: while they may have more financial resources than most teams, they all still have to do their regular jobs. THEY ARE ALL VOLUNTEERS!!! The hundreds of hours that they EACH spend during the year does not get rewarded financially, nor do they get release time from their regular work. Engineers, teachers and students alike all put in incredible time and energy. I know that this is likewise true of the Bomb Squad, HOT, Huskie Brigade, Technokats...etc.; it's even true with my new team, the Juggernauts. Don't focus on how well-funded teams are, look at the incredible time and energy that so many FIRST teams invest in this amazing program.


Open Letter to All:

: I stick by the lights.

: Co-opertition FIRST would have been a totally unviewable mess without those lights.

: I am serious. Can you imagine trying to figure out whether a robot is scoring to win or scoring to even the score in order to gain Q-points without those lights? It was bad enough as it was. Without the lights, only fanatical fans with photographic memories could have made any sense of the game at all.

: While I don't think the lights had anything to do with being a finalist for the Chairman's Award, I DO take credit (or blame) for them with pride.

: Joe J.

: P.S. Speaking of the Chairman's Award & kit related things, I note a tone in a lot of folk's messages of 'Big Budget' teams getting all the breaks.

: I don't deny that strong, reliable funding brings many advantages, but I would hope that those same folks will give us a break once in for working to help the whole FIRST community with only marginal benefit to our own team. If I start to list the ways, it is likely this will only lead to more snide remarks like those I have already read too often. BUT…

: …The issue of improving the FIRST kit is too dear to my heart to let pass without some words. With the exception of the paid staff of FIRST and perhaps Tony, Dave & Bob from Innovation First, I dare say nobody has had a larger impact on the FIRST kit of materials than I have.

: It pains me to have this work disparaged and dismissed as the result of some endless bucket of money that I am supposed to have access to in order to buy the hearts & minds of FIRST judges. Well… …it just isn't so.

: At the risk of blowing my own horn too loudly, let me list the items and ideas that I have played a major role in getting into the FIRST kit:
: Tape Drive Window Lift Motor & Mechanism
: The larger capacity lead-acid batteries
: Fore/Aft Seat Adjuster
: Power Sliding Door Motors
: Globe Motors
: Fisher-Price Transmissions & Motors
: Keyang Seat Adjuster Motors
: Power Distribution Blocks
: Gyro Chip
: Operator Interface powered via robot battery power via the tether
: Rotating Lights

: Seriously, can anyone really imaging building a robot to play the games we've had these past few years without these kit components in the kit? Yet, even so, I doubt that any of the judges had anything but the vaguest idea of any of these efforts.

: So… Next time you are smearing 'big budget' teams for buying their way to awards, I hope that you will at least concede at least some folks on some of these teams are directing some of their efforts to advancing FIRST with something less than selfish motives.

: P.P.S. I encourage others to join the effort of improving the FIRST kit. If your sponsor makes cool stuff that would be great on a FIRST robot, ASK THEM TO DONATE! If you see stuff in trade magazines that every fashionable robot simply can't live without, CALL THE MANUFACTURER. All they can say is no. AND... ...all it takes is time & a stamp.

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Posted by Jon.

Engineer on team #190, Gompei, from Mass Academy of Math and Science and Worcester Polytechnic Institute.

Posted on 8/2/2000 3:39 PM MST


In Reply to: Is the Chairman's Award fixed? I believe so..... posted by Vinny Bushemi on 8/2/2000 2:47 PM MST:



Your commentary, while 'interesting', is caustic and has no constructive merit of any sort.

I'm sorry that you do not trust that the judges know what they are doing when dealing with all of the entries.

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Posted by colleen.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Coach on team #246, a FIRST-aholic, from John D. O'Byrant High School/Boston Latin Academy and NSTAR/Boston University/UTC/Raytheon/MassPEP.

Posted on 8/2/2000 3:57 PM MST


In Reply to: Is the Chairman's Award fixed? I believe so..... posted by Vinny Bushemi on 8/2/2000 2:47 PM MST:



I can't say that I can do either...

I will, with ALL HONESTY, that I many a time felt that some awards were given to teams because of who they were and were sponsored by, and not solely on their merits... I am by no means judging whether or not the teams that have won it 'deserved' it.. but I would be lying to say I haven't thought the same things as Vinny before..

From personal experience, I know and agree that Team #23, Boston Edison/PNTA deserved the award by far. And from my high interaction with many teams.. I will also say that I am excessively disappointed to have not seen Team #175 Buzz go away from Nationals with that clock yet... I know as well of the good things Delphi has done... I can't with much fairness say on the others..

That's why I never brought the subject up.. but since it is here... I can't say I disagree....

I've experienced for myself what it's like to be on a team with some $$ and a team who could barely afford to attend nationals.. with the former.. we had a fighting chance to win Chairman's.. on my team now, i really don't think we do.. and the money has made the difference.. sponsor involvement and support, both financially and with man-power, make an incredible difference in what kind of 'things' you can do that would put you in the running for chairman's award.. a bunch of high school and college kids from Boston don't have the opportunity, ability, or time to achieve some of the great things the well-funded and well-staffed teams have... Money gives you access to the tools needed not only to make a Chairman's Award that is presentable.. but to do the things worth writing about...

So, maybe all teams over the past 6 years have deserved the award.. I'm not about to agrue with any judges or anyone of you.. but as a general fact, I would definite state that funding gives teams a much better advantage to win.. that's of not fault of the team, companies that are big into FIRST and can spare much $$$ are great...

This subject has been broached before regarding robots and how some teams can 'afford' to build better bots.. and I think it's the same for the Chairman's... MONEY IS A KEY RESOURCE IN THIS GAME.. and some of us, not matter how much we try, just can't be up to 'caliber' because we don't have it..

If you look at it objectively.. i think Vinny's got a point...

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Posted by Vanessa Bessner.

Student on team #16, Baxter Bomb Squad, from Mountain Home High School and Baxter Healthcare Corporation.

Posted on 8/3/2000 7:41 AM MST


In Reply to: To agree or disagree is the question.. posted by colleen on 8/2/2000 3:57 PM MST:



Colleen~

Hi, once again this is Vanessa from the Bomb Squad. Like I said in an earlier response, we were the 2000 winner of the Chairman's Award. In your reply, you mentioned that with money you can make a Chairman's Award that is presentable and can afford to put worthwild stuff in it. I would have to disagree with you on this one. The Bomb Squad's Chairman's Award submission costs about $5 in total to make. It was simply a 3-ring binder and a power point presentation on a video that we spent hours upon hours making. It is not the submission that wins Chairman's Award, it is what goes into the submission that is important. And what goes into the submission by no means takes a lot of money either. Chairman's Award is presented to the team that exemplifies best the partnership between the students and engineers, school and corporate sponsor, team and communtity, etc....the team that exemplifies what FIRST is all about: the inspiration, not the competition. To do this you do not need alot of money.....example: Making presentations to civic clubs (cost: $0), teaching 2nd and 3rd graders about engineering and FIRST (cost:$0), mentoring Lego League teams and volunteering at the competition (cost:$0), etc. . .I could go on and on with this. I don't know how it has been for every other team that has won the Chairman's Award, but I felt that you should know how it is for ours. But this is an open forum, and anyone's opinion is welcome.

Vanessa