2014 help for third year team

[jds2001]

I realize that some of you are still in the 2013 season, but our season is over and I'm firmly in 2014 mode now

TL;DR: We’re an alternative high school for at-risk students, and I’d like some organizational help for the team in 2014.

I’m writing to ask for some help. I'm likely to take over (for 2014) as the lead non-teacher mentor of the team, and while I do have this year’s experience behind me, and think that I can do this, I need some help as to a few items.

First, we’re a bit of a non-traditional high school. We’re an alternative school for at-risk students that haven’t been able to succeed for whatever reason in a traditional high school environment. A lot of our students are fresh immigrants from China (many with under a year in this country, and a lot with limited English proficiency - communication in Mandarin is easier for them). This can create communication challenges occasionally, as my only language is English. Our admission criteria are 17-21 year olds that can graduate by age 21, and have a minimum of 10 high school credits.

Therefore, here more than most other schools, I feel that the robotics program can make a positive impact on the lives of these kids, but we have to be careful at the same time - because of the background that many of our students have, they can get discouraged rather easily. Therefore, while I feel that the program needs structure, enforcing a structure is challenging because I don’t want the students to feel discouraged and leave the program - that would be one of the worst outcomes possible. The makeup of our school also means that it’s small - only around 500 students in total. Because of the admission requirements, it’s mostly a 2 year program, therefore we don’t get the advantage of building a pipeline that most teams get - kids come in as freshman, and continue with the program until senior year.

That presents another problem of the lack of seniority on the team. With students there for only two years, the turnover rate for the team (we were a second year team this year, going to be a third year team in 2014) is high, so building an experienced team is somewhat tricky (all of the experience in the long term I think is going to come from the teacher/mentor side of things).

There’s also the challenge that we’re a NYC public school. Not only that, we share the building with 2 other schools (a middle school and another high school). Therefore, access to the building is difficult because we have to have a school safety officer there at all times while there’s anyone in the building, and getting them to stay after 7PM on any given day is a challenge. As most people know, that’s not enough time during build season to get a good robot built and tested.

Now that I’ve been through what we don’t have, what we do have is good sponsorship (from my employer), so money, while a concern, shouldn’t be that much of a concern. We also have a teacher that’s committed and technical, and serves as a translator when needed. For as small of a team as we have, we’ve got a decent shop going on (we’re not a huge school like where I went to high school all those years ago that had a complete industrial arts program, nor would there be the space - I went to high school in St. Louis, where space is plentiful! In NYC, not so much...)

We competed in the NYC regionals, and we didn’t place last . That being said, we didn’t do much better, either. We had a risky design that didn’t really pay off. Scouting was an issue for us (not that it turned out to be an issue with our performance, but still...), mostly because of a lack of preparation.

What I found during the build season was that our structure, while it existed, wasn’t being followed really. We had one programmer (out of a team of 5), for example, who graduated this year. Not only that, being the only programmer, he was the only one that knew the controls well, so the only driver. Imagine my heart sinking when he came down with a stomach virus on Friday (fortunately, he was only out one match, then was fine). He’s left the team with nothing, really.

The good thing is that I have the code from this year, so if all else fails, we’ll at least have that next year (and Java isn’t incredibly difficult to teach, and the WPILib examples are pretty good and what most of our code is based on). I’d like to see other teams code to see what they’ve done too, so that I can incorporate some of that.

Being a programming guy myself, I’d like to see more discipline around that, including things like version control with git on github, and things like that. But maybe I’m expecting too much of high school kids?

Secondly, we have a shortage of CAD expertise - shortage meaning zero. I’m willing to learn myself and to teach, but what should I do? We’re drawing things by hand, and doing rapid prototyping (like out of wood) to make sure that they work and fit together. I feel that this could be more efficiently done via CAD, but I’m a newbie myself, and no one on the team knows anything either.

I guess that the question for the CD community is what can a team like ours do in order to be more competitive, and what organizational strategies do you think would work with these kids? FIRST is something that I strongly believe can not only get these kids to graduate, but to pursue STEM careers. I only wish I had something like this in high school!

[1683cadder]

Have you tried asking other teams to help?

[Gregor]

Originally Posted by 1683cadder

Have you tried asking other teams to help?

You mean, like posting on Chief Delphi?

[jds2001]

Originally Posted by 1683cadder

Have you tried asking other teams to help?

Well, like the next poster snarkily replied, I posted here . But what else did you have in mind? I think that asking other teams to help us during the build season would detract valuable resources from that other team.

There are preseason workshops in NYC, which I went to last year, but had zero idea of what I was doing, having never been on a team in the past. Now that I have, I think I'll get more out of them next year, and can insist on students coming along.

Another thing that I failed to mention in my original post is that NYC doesn't have a "zoned" system for high schools. Therefore, some of our students live literally two hours away from the school. So that's a problem in that after a long build day, they need to get home, do other homework, and then get enough sleep to be functional the next day.

[NWChen]

Originally Posted by jds200

There are preseason workshops in NYC, which I went to last year, but had zero idea of what I was doing, having never been on a team in the past.

I'm not sure whether you're referring to team 694/Stuypulse's workshops; if not, you should definitely look at their preseason presentations. 694 is a very respectable team on the other side of Manhattan; try contacting them if you ever need resources/help. Their code is also open source on GitHub.
/end recommendation

Originally Posted by jds200

I think that asking other teams to help us during the build season would detract valuable resources from that other team.

As a programmer for 2601, I'm willing to help you out as well. You shouldn't be afraid to ask other teams for aid; "detracting valuable resources" doesn't occur, at least in my case, because I'm waiting half the season for planning and building to be completed. I understand the situation may be the same for your team, but it's important to actively seek resources.

[Doc Wu]

I think the first rule I'd make would be to set a goal of running the team in English. Not because there is anything wrong with using another language or being multi-lingual, but because you all need to be able to communicate. Communicate with mentors, with other teams, with students on the team that only speak English. Also, if the goal is to help interest the students in going on to university later, they probably will do so in the US, so being able to communicate, particularily technical terms, in English is important. This is not a rule so much, as a goal. And the kids can pick up English faster than you can learn Mandarin.

Second, you need to recruit more mentors. It sounds like you have your hands full and are a bit overwhelmed by trying to do it all. It takes a student a while to get the feel of FIRST. The same is true of mentors. It sounds like you're just begining to see the whole picture. Get some more mentors on board asap so they can get up to speed.

I'd also agree with finding a team to help you, not so much during the build season, but year-round. There must be a nearby veteran team in your area that would be willing to work together. The right relationship with another team can result in a synergy that will help both teams.

Being a 2 year program is difficult, but can be overcome. Some schools have thrived that way. Where do your students come from? Can there be a feeder program at a lower grade level that prepares students for FIRST? Maybe a FTC team?

Limited hours is a problem many schools face. You need to maximize the use of your shop time to take advantage of all of it. Schedule non-shop events, such as meetings for another place and time. Maybe you can use a library or community center.

You can never have too many sponsors. Even if your employer is paying the way now, perhaps other sponsors can help in other areas, such as work space, or CAD expertise. It never hurts to get help from many directions.

Now that your 2013 season is over, don't be afraid to get out and promote your program. You've got a robot you can use to put on demonstrations. Get the kids out there showing off their work. It's fun and it builds team spirit. You also get to talk to a lot of people about your robotics program and some of them may be potential sponsors.

That's just a few ideas off the top of my head. I'm sure you will get many more here. Good luck.

[Moriarty]

My team has struggled with sustainability this year (not sure if helpful but: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh....php?t=109888), and things have turned out a lot better than we expected. We managed to build a competitive robot despite just barely funding the entry fee.

What we learned this year is that the ideal team structure is not for every team. It turned out that our team was a bit too small to have a full team structure. As such, we began to create a smaller scale structure that has minimal functionality but enables some order rather than none. We identified specific tasks that needed to be done (eg wheel assembly, chassis assembly) and put one of the more responsible students in charge and gave them the responsibility of communicating with all of their group when they were meeting / what they missed at a meeting / taught them how to do the task. These leaders are then kept in check by the adults and team captain. The key thing, at least for my team to realize was that because we don't have a high membership (<10 dedicated members) we cannot pull off the "Programming Team, CAD Team, Design-and-build Team, etc" structure that is classically suggested. Instead, this structure we have while not perfect allows the limited amount of experience to be organized among many different tasks. For example, a recent task for us was bumper construction. A student was put in charge of it and their progress was monitored. When progress stalled, a leader asked what was wrong and suggested possible steps to getting past the problem (or in the case of slacking, gave them a reminder on their position and responsibility)

This is rather specific to my team, and I know your teams situation is quite different, but it might give some insight.

[jds2001]

Originally Posted by Moriarty

My team has struggled with sustainability this year (not sure if helpful but: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh....php?t=109888), and things have turned out a lot better than we expected. We managed to build a competitive robot despite just barely funding the entry fee.

I actually found that thread near the beginning of my time on CD, and bookmarked it, so it's surely helpful

You mention that you have <10 committed members. Do you also have what I'll refer to as "transient" student members? IOW, those that show up from time to time and really aren't 100% committed? If so, how do you engage them to make the maximal use of their effort, even though it might be limited, and try to convert them to committed members?

[Becca334]

NYC teams are always more than willing to help, there's around 40 of us in total so use your resources!

Something I suggest is to send some of your students to the next TLA meeting (Team Leadership Meeting). TLA is a monthly meeting where 1-2 student members from every team in the city is invited to meet with our regional director, Con Edison (which ALWAYS helps NYC teams), and some other FIRST Volunteers in order to provide the best experience for the NYC Teams. Our next meeting is actually next Satursay, the 23rd.

I'm currently serving as one of the Presidents this year, so PM me for more details. Attending TLA opens up a wide array of resources to your team.

You mentioned how most students are only there for about 2 years, so if you know for sure that you have continuing students for next year, I highly suggest to send them.

[Moriarty]

Originally Posted by jds200

I actually found that thread near the beginning of my time on CD, and bookmarked it, so it's surely helpful

You mention that you have <10 committed members. Do you also have what I'll refer to as "transient" student members? IOW, those that show up from time to time and really aren't 100% committed? If so, how do you engage them to make the maximal use of their effort, even though it might be limited, and try to convert them to committed members?

We do have these. and making them committed members is still something we struggle with. Part of the reason why we made the switch towards a smaller structural model is to try to accomplish drawing in these students. The ideal would be that the students in charge of the smaller group would keep in contact (via Facebook perhaps -- a very effective form of communication for high schoolers) with the students and help convince them to come when they have not been coming to meetings. This has worked on a very small level, but how effective it really is during build season is yet to be seen, as the switch was made near the end of build season when work was slowing down.

[faust1706]

I'm sure the mentors of team 1706 would jump to the opportunity to help you guys. We could do tele workshops (not sure if that is a word) in CAD (we use Autodesk Inventor), and could get you copies. Also, we are going to other teams this year and doing labview and vision programming workshops, again, teleworkshops would be available, along with software. If you are interested, please let me know.

[faust1706]

and about committed students, by the end of build season, there was 6 students remaining, and after build season on friday nights and saturdays working with out practice robot. We start out with 30+ students every year, but after the 3rd or so week of build season, most of them are gone. We've tried to fix this by encouraging them to keep engineering notebooks and similar things, but they all seems to disappear, then of course reappear around competition. How have other teams fixed this issue?

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by faust1706

and about committed students, by the end of build season, there was 6 students remaining, and after build season on friday nights and saturdays working with out practice robot. We start out with 30+ students every year, but after the 3rd or so week of build season, most of them are gone. We've tried to fix this by encouraging them to keep engineering notebooks and similar things, but they all seems to disappear, then of course reappear around competition. How have other teams fixed this issue?

The TechnoKats have participation requirements in order for a student to be eligible to travel with the team. This year it was 50% of the days there were work sessions during the build and following week. I think that worked out to at least 21 days that each student had to be present (and productive).

[dcarr]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

The TechnoKats have participation requirements in order for a student to be eligible to travel with the team. This year it was 50% of the days there were work sessions during the build and following week. I think that worked out to at least 21 days that each student had to be present (and productive).

Echo the 50%.

Any student who is interested is welcome to attend the competition on Saturday, but to be excused from school from team travel, our students must meet baseline requirements including attendance.