Modifying robot at competition?

[DanCreed3692]

T08

At the time of Inspection, the ROBOT must be presented with all MECHANISMS (including all COMPONENTS of each MECHANISM), configurations, and decorations that will be used on the ROBOT during the entire competition event. It is acceptable, however, for a ROBOT to play MATCHES with a subset of the MECHANISMS that were present during Inspection. Only MECHANISMS that were present during the Inspection may be added, removed or reconfigured between MATCHES. If MECHANISMS are changed between MATCHES, the reconfigured ROBOT must still meet all Inspection criteria.


I want to see what peoples take on this rule is. To me I read this as that each robot has to be presented at initial inspection with all components of each mechanism for any configurations that are planned to be used during the "ENTIRE COMPETITION EVENT".... E.G. if you came to the competition with a robot designed to be an awesome shooter, but then suddenly see another team has this awesome device, or some other component that allows it to do something completely different. I talking adds a totally new function to your robot and you thus start playing the game in a tottaly different way because of this new mechanism it should NOT be allowed. In fact it even goes on to specifically state that ONLY Mechanisms that were present during during the inspection may be added/removed/reconfigured between matches..

We got the #1 seed, and went to finals with an AWESOME long range shooter and had two teams them subsuqently out of the blue build completely jury rigged 84" masts with plastic and netting specifically added to block our alliance partners shots. These masts WERE NOT used during any other matches, were NOT presented during initial inspection, and didn't exist until other teams saw the threat our long range shooting alliance partner brought to the table.
(much more importantly they did not exist in any way shape or form before initial inspection).
What are your thoughts. Personally I think the rule is pretty black in white, as it does specifically state that the mechanisms used for the entire competition event must be presented at inspection (implies initial one), and then further clarifies that ONLY mechanisms preesented during inspection may be added/removed/reconfigured... thus further indicating the intention to not allow teams to fabricate new mechansisms out of the blue to add whole new funcationality just to defeat other teams with a different design that is difficult to defend with the robot you brought to the arena...

[jee7s]

Yes, you're right, everything does need to be inspected. But, that doesn't mean mods can't be made at the event. They just all have to be inspected before you go on the field.

FRC 2789 did this at least 4 times this season, notably during elims at Lubbock. With the help of the Bomb Squad, we taped on a bunch of pool noodle and fiberglass rod between matches. The inspector was there, watched us do it, and signed off on it.

So, it's not that you can't make changes, it's that all changes must be inspected. The manual never says that there's only one inspection. You can get an inspector at any time. But, everything on your robot needs to have been inspected before you go on the field for a given match.

[Gregor]

"Inspection time" is not specified. You can get inspected and re-inspected at any time you want.

[markmcgary]

So, we just ignore the "during the entire competition event." part.

[LeelandS]

Originally Posted by markmcgary

So, we just ignore the "during the entire competition event." part.

The "snag" so to speak, as Gregor pointed out, is that the time of inspection is not specified. It does not express the difference between the "initial inspection", the "inspection prior to elimination rounds" or any inspection before or after it. Once a robot has been inspected (and subsequently re-inspected), parts that were present during inspection become fair game.

"If MECHANISMS are changed between MATCHES, the reconfigured ROBOT must still meet all Inspection criteria."

[kylelanman]

I believe in this instance (Team 269) the argument is irrelevant due to incorrect assumptions that are being made.

The following is all based on what I was told from other team members.

The device existed during initial inspection. My understanding was that the same device was also used at another regional in prior weeks.

[connor.worley]

If T08 makes such modifications illegal in a general case, what is the purpose of T10?

If a ROBOT is modified after it has passed Inspection, other than modifications described in T8, that ROBOT must be re-Inspected.

[Jefferson]

Originally Posted by jee7s

FRC 2789 did this at least 4 times this season, notably during elims at Lubbock. With the help of the Bomb Squad, we taped on a bunch of pool noodle and fiberglass rod between matches.

And let me add ya'll were very cool with it. I'm not sure all teams would be happy about taping pool noodles and fiberglass rods to their robot, but y'all were willing to do whatever it took.

Y'all were great to work with and did and excellent job blocking 2468s full court shot. It got us into the finals where we ran up against 1986... not much we could do about them.

[markmcgary]

In my humble opinion, some of these rules appear to conflict with one another. However, I believe that it is in the spirit of FIRST to allow adaptation in response to circumstances. So, modify away. I just wish it was as easy to add a decent disk collector as it is to add a pool noodle blocker.

[J-Blondie]

I think that it was just good strategy that came into play there. They saw the opportunity and snagged it to pretty much shutdown one of the power teams on the alliance. I've seen teams do that plenty through the years. I know your alliances defender robot was trying their best to defend you guys from them, but in the end, it just didn't play out.

[MooreteP]

This is one of the cooler aspects of FIRST.

Watching teams engaged in design iteration during the limited window of Thursday practice, then in between Friday and Saturday matches, is like Jazz.

Especially the blockers that magically appear after lunch on Saturday.

[2789_B_Garcia]

Originally Posted by MooreteP

Watching teams engaged in design iteration during the limited window of Thursday practice, then in between Friday and Saturday matches, is like Jazz.

You're absolutely right...and working with Mr. Novak and the Bomb Squad to do this is like sharing a duet with John Coltrane or Miles Davis! They are truly inspiring to work with!

[SteveE]

The 3 areas I look for are starting inside the frame perimeter, weight, and then overall height. Once I know the height, and that they are legal, they are free to compete, and then I can relay the height to the referees so that they know that the bot is 59.5" instead of 60.5".

The height limit is actually 84 inches, even at the beginning. You just can't go out of your auto zone if it is above 60.

[trilogy2826]

Originally Posted by SteveE

The height limit is actually 84 inches, even at the beginning. You just can't cross center field if it is above 60.

Correction: You cannot leave your Auto Zone if the robot is over 60" tall

[Richard Wallace]

IKE did a great job covering this topic from the LRI's point of view in an earlier post.

One additional consideration that should not be missed is:

"R05 The ROBOT weight may not exceed 120 lbs. When determining weight, the basic ROBOT structure and all elements of all additional MECHANISMS that might be used in different configurations of the ROBOT shall be weighed together." (emphasis mine)

Reading the above together with the provision of T08 (quoted by the OP) "during the entire competition event," I interpret the combination of rules to mean that ALL mechanisms included on the robot at any time during the event should be weighed together when the robot is presented for inspection, and that this should be required when/if any new mechanisms are added.