Using Discs to Block Full Court Shooters

[dtengineering]

At the two events I've been to this year, full-court shooters (948 and 4334) were on the winning alliance. The general strategy was to have the FCS get into position and the #3 pick run interference to keep the opposing alliance's "blocker" robot away.

Alliances without a "blocker" may as well have packed up and gone home, but a good blocker could really cut down on the effectiveness of even the best FCS machines.

The rules clearly limit a "blocker" robot to 84" in height, but I can't seem to find anything that would prevent a blocker from grasping a disc and raising the disc above 84". Likewise, while a robot may never exceed a 54" cylinder, a disc is certainly allowed to leave the cylinder.

For teams heading to St. Louis, knowing that they aren't a great shooter, and are only a 10 point climber, would it not be possible to use the 30 pound withholding allowance to build a lightweight mechanism that would grasp three discs using grippers right at the edges of the robot size envelope, and become a blocker with an effective height of 94" and width of 60+"?

A quick sketch would explain this even better... but if you've read this far, you probably get the idea. I feel kind of bad suggesting this, because full court shooters that can rapidly hit "three" after "three" are a thing of beauty. (Yeah, 948, that's you I'm talking about!)

But just think how much more effective a shot blocker could be if they were using the discs to extend their reach.

Jason

[CalTran]

It's an interesting concept, and I must say that when I read the title of the thread, I thought you were talking about using discs in a "PULL!" fashion!

I'm not sure how the ruling would go on this one, but from a quick skim I would say that it'd be a legal idea.

[Joe Ross]

This is what I thought of: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=105023

[zmeves]

Interesting idea. The rules limit the FCS to 60", however, so any 84" tall robot should be able to block of its own accord. There are very few disc flight paths that will pass over the blocker and still make a goal. If launched at the steepness of angle required to go over the blocker, a disc will reverse direction once it drifts back down.

Unless the FCS was a "hammer-bot"....

[EricH]

Hmm...

Off-hand, I can't think of any rules that it would violate. However, I do think that this is pushing the envelope a little too far, and if implemented with any success will result in a rule for next year reading something to the effect of "Robots may not use game objects in their construction" and another to the effect of "Robots may not intentionally use game objects to interfere with other game objects".

[Woolly]

Originally Posted by EricH

Hmm...

Off-hand, I can't think of any rules that it would violate. However, I do think that this is pushing the envelope a little too far, and if implemented with any success will result in a rule for next year reading something to the effect of "Robots may not use game objects in their construction" and another to the effect of "Robots may not intentionally use game objects to interfere with other game objects".

Right, not to mention the fact that a 70"-90" actuating blocker would probably not be limited to success in blocking FCS robots. At 70", you're right in a lot of pyramid runners' flight paths.

[zmeves]

Originally Posted by Woolly

Right, not to mention the fact that a 70"-90" actuating blocker would probably not be limited to success in blocking FCS robots. At 70", you're right in a lot of pyramid runners' flight paths.

Any robot attempting to block another's pyramid shot can only be 60" tall, you can only be over 60" inside your Autozone (which is where opposing FCS's shoot from)

[Woolly]

Originally Posted by zmeves

Any robot attempting to block another's pyramid shot can only be 60" tall, you can only be over 60" inside your Autozone (which is where opposing FCS's shoot from)

70" is taking into account the height of the Frisbee on top of your 60" blocker while allowing a 1.5" grip on the Frisbee.

[zmeves]

Originally Posted by Woolly

70" is taking into account the height of the Frisbee on top of your 60" blocker while allowing a 1.5" grip on the Frisbee.

Ah, understood. I misread it at first.
Yes, that could make a difference for blocking pyramid shots if the robot could maintain a grip on the disc while holding up to some very hard shots.

[CalTran]

Originally Posted by zmeves

Ah, understood. I misread it at first.
Yes, that could make a difference for blocking pyramid shots if the robot could maintain a grip on the disc while holding up to some very hard shots.

And could have been our chance to block some of your shots at Razorback...but alas your shots cleared our noodle tips.

[zmeves]

Originally Posted by CalTran

And could have been our chance to block some of your shots at Razorback...but alas your shots cleared our noodle tips.

I well remember being afraid of you blocking our shots

[Grim Tuesday]

Q&A is in:

Q623 Q. Do DISCS under the active control of a ROBOT count towards the limits defined by the PLAYING CONFIGURATION? STARTING CONFIGURATION?
A. No. No.

Not surprised but I wish I had thought of the idea earlier and made a robot designed to be 70" in the opponent's auto zone. Also a robot that ferries discs.

[efoote868]

Since you get three frisbees at the start, you could try and wedge the third frisbee in between the first two, and increase your effective height even more.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by zmeves

Any robot attempting to block another's pyramid shot can only be 60" tall, you can only be over 60" inside your Autozone (which is where opposing FCS's shoot from)

But if you were to have your blocker rigged such that everything except some number of discs (less than or equal to 4, of course) were able to drop below 60", could the refs call you for being above the height limit?

Not if it was retracted. Not under current rules. But the effective blocking height is going to be closer to 70" than 60".

[Grim Tuesday]

Looks like a good one for Q&A. Posted:

Q623:
Do DISCS under the active control of a ROBOT count towards the limits defined by the PLAYING CONFIGURATION? STARTING CONFIGURATION?

(Come one guys, we can make it to Q639!)