Rule T-11: WHY!?!?!?!???

[DELurker]

I have to ask, just because that's the kind of guy I am. Is there any real purpose to Rule T11?

5.5.2.6 T11
At events, Teams may only produce FABRICATED ITEMS in the pit areas or provided machine shops, as defined in the Administrative Manual, Section 4.8, The Pit.

What else would a Team produce in their pits? COTS items?

[Nuttyman54]

I believe the point of the rule is to make it illegal to fabricate items anywhere else, such as in the queue line or on the field.

[BrendanB]

Its so teams don't start working on items in other areas on the arena. How would the event staff respond to a group of kids drilling aluminum in the lobby or stands?

[Joe Ross]

I think it also levels the playing field because local teams can't manufacture parts at home. A well equipped team could easily fabricate a lot of parts during the practice day, making the withholding allowance useless.

[Jaxom]

Originally Posted by Joe Ross

I think it also levels the playing field because local teams can't manufacture parts at home. A well equipped team could easily fabricate a lot of parts during the practice day, making the withholding allowance useless.

I don't understand how this would get them around the withholding allowance. Teams still would only be allowed to bring in 30 pounds; the rules specify "...to each event....". Meaning (to me, anyway) that the applies throughout the tournament, not just when the robot is brought into the facility.

[BrendanB]

Originally Posted by Jaxom

I don't understand how this would get them around the withholding allowance. Teams still would only be allowed to bring in 30 pounds; the rules specify "...to each event....". Meaning (to me, anyway) that the applies throughout the tournament, not just when the robot is brought into the facility.

True, but another way to think about it is I am at the "event" and I have raw materials with me, lets go into our team's mobile machine shop and start cranking out parts and put them on the robot. Oh, and our mobile machine shop has more machining capability than the event's machine shop.

Technically I am at the event turning cots/raw materials into parts to put on my robot and the rules don't limit how much cots/raw materials I can bring in and put on my robot.

[Jaxom]

Originally Posted by BrendanB

True, but another way to think about it is I am at the "event" and I have raw materials with me, lets go into our team's mobile machine shop and start cranking out parts and put them on the robot. Oh, and our mobile machine shop has more machining capability than the event's machine shop.

The post to which I was responding was specifically about a local team manufacturing something at home. Anyone can have a mobile machine shop; that's not limited to the home teams (although admittedly easier to bring into the parking lot).

Originally Posted by BrendanB

Technically I am at the event turning cots/raw materials into parts to put on my robot and the rules don't limit how much cots/raw materials I can bring in and put on my robot.

Typically when someone has to use the word "technically" when explaining how they're interpreting a rule, they're lawyering. imo that mobile machine shop in the parking lot isn't at the event since it's not in the event venue. T-11 solves the problem, though.

[themccannman]

Originally Posted by Jaxom

imo that mobile machine shop in the parking lot isn't at the event since it's not in the event venue. T-11 solves the problem, though.

Wait, so all we have to do is drive our machine shop through the front doors and into the pits? Awesome! We might need a little more pit space though

[FrankJ]

Originally Posted by themccannman

Wait, so all we have to do is drive our machine shop through the front doors and into the pits? Awesome! We might need a little more pit space though

Darn Administrative Manual

When using tools in the Pit, be sure to use them properly, in a safe and controlled manner. Unsafe operation, especially those that endanger others and your team, will be subject to scrutiny by the event staff and safety reviewers. Their findings may result in team caution or event expulsion.

Please adhere to the following safety rules regarding Pit safety and tool use:

Tools that throw sparks are prohibited.
Examples: Electric welders, bench grinders and angle grinders.
Tools that produce open flames are prohibited.
Examples: Gas welders and propane/MAPP gas torches.
Floor standing power tools are prohibited.
Examples: Full-size drill presses, full-size band saws and full-size table saws.
Grinding or painting in the Pit is prohibited. Designated grinding and painting areas are available to teams.
Brazing/welding is prohibited at the team Pits. Use the machine shop.
Soldering is permitted. Use electric iron/gun only.
Small, bench-top machinery, with appropriate guards, is permitted in team Pits.
We consider ‘small’ machinery as machinery easily lifted by one (1) person
Examples: Small band saws, drill presses, and sanders.
Small, desktop machining centers are permitted as long as they are reasonably sized. They must be appropriately covered to prevent throwing of chips during operation.
We consider ‘small’ machining centers to be easily lifted by one (1) person
Example: Desktop CNC mill.

[Peter Matteson]

Originally Posted by Joe Ross

I think it also levels the playing field because local teams can't manufacture parts at home. A well equipped team could easily fabricate a lot of parts during the practice day, making the withholding allowance useless.

This was always the intent of the rule from my understanding.

[Rosiebotboss]

Nor can they take parts to their hotel and work on them overnight. I had a team at a regional I was an inspector at that wanted to remanufacture their bumpers over night and I had to disallow it because of T11. It levels the playing field on how much TIME a team can work on their robot as well.

[Gray Adams]

Originally Posted by Rosiebotboss

Nor can they take parts to their hotel and work on them overnight. I had a team at a regional I was an inspector at that wanted to remanufacture their bumpers over night and I had to disallow it because of T11. It levels the playing field on how much TIME a team can work on their robot as well.

Time is the only thing every team at an event has an equal amount of already.

[TheMadCADer]

Originally Posted by Rosiebotboss

Nor can they take parts to their hotel and work on them overnight. I had a team at a regional I was an inspector at that wanted to remanufacture their bumpers over night and I had to disallow it because of T11. It levels the playing field on how much TIME a team can work on their robot as well.

I'd disagree with that decision considering the changes to the bumper rules this year. Particularly how they no longer count toward your withholding allowance and don't need to be included in the robot bag. Besides, the bumpers wouldn't give them any sort of competitive advantage beyond allowing them to work on their robot instead of their bumpers like any other team. Many teams made their bumpers at home after build season ended, so I don't see an issue here.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Rosiebotboss

I had a team at a regional I was an inspector at that wanted to remanufacture their bumpers over night and I had to disallow it because of T11.

Originally Posted by TheMadCADer

I'd disagree with that decision considering the changes to the bumper rules this year. Particularly how they no longer count toward your withholding allowance and don't need to be included in the robot bag.

Good point. I'm prepared to accept that the rules would permit a team to take bumpers and operator consoles off site to work on them.

[dcarr]

Originally Posted by BrendanB

Its so teams don't start working on items in other areas on the arena. How would the event staff respond to a group of kids drilling aluminum in the lobby or stands?

Or parking lot, team trailer, off-site, etc.

What Joe said